Author Topic: Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son? - Eid Al Adha  (Read 1794 times)

good logic

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Re: Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son? - Eid Al Adha
« Reply #40 on: August 31, 2019, 02:44:56 PM »
Thanks brother Imran. I like things easy.
I will  help you out by mentioning "lamb", actually many "lambs" in this post:

My wife said we each needed to make sacrifices to make our relationship work.
She was less than impressed with the dead lamb I left in our kitchen.

She was right. In order to make a relationship work, you have to make a lot of sacrifices….
Which is why I keep a large number of lambs in my garden…

I adopted a lamb the other day, but my wife said I'd have to get rid of it...
I guess as long as I live with my wife, I'll have to make sacrifices.
 
As for Abraham:
Why did God ask Abraham to sacrifice his son ?
If it was someone  else s son it wouldn't be much of  a sacrifice.

Do you also want me to tell a story about sacrifice from the beginning?;

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth and all things that in them are:
Then he eventually created Adam, who was having a lot of fun in the garden, walking around naked, eating fruit from various trees, and hanging out with/naming all of the animals. including lambs.

But one day, Adam began to feel lonely and decided to talk to God about it. In that discussion, Adam expressed that he didn't really have anyone to talk with or connect to on an emotional and physical level and that, somehow, he was incomplete.

God then told Adam about this wonderful creation he had in the works called a woman. In that discussion, he described this woman as being a helpmate, a lover, a friend, a confidant, and a lifetime companion. God said that she would support him in all of his righteous endeavours.

Adam told God that this sounded like the perfect remedy to his ailment and asked God if there was anything he could do to help get things moving along? God said that he would take care of everything, but that he needed an arm and a leg from Adam before he could proceed.

Shocked, Adam asked for some alone time to contemplate such a sacrifice for his own emotional and physical needs. After several hours, he got up, reconvened with God and asked, "What can I get for a rib?"

GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

imrankhawaja

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Re: Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son? - Eid Al Adha
« Reply #41 on: August 31, 2019, 07:33:30 PM »
@ lovely GL

mysterious boy i knew u are a time traveler  :yay: you told us a story about our first parents how they started dating  :rotfl:

u didnt tell who bring eve ? was it gabi or his own rib ? and the most beautiful moment when adam saw eve and he looked in to her eyes like filmy hero  :rotfl: and eve get shy ...

then adam said to eve,

ADAM darling i love u a  lot and theres nothing that can separate us.
EVE i know my love adam, there is  noone except me and you so none can seperate us anyway..

but they forget an enemy is making a plan to give them damage that was ibless  >:D
and also a time traveler GL  ;) was there

whatever story/movie u come up with there is always a hero and villain hahahaha some times guest appearance like you  :handshake:

good logic

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Re: Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son? - Eid Al Adha
« Reply #42 on: September 01, 2019, 03:13:52 AM »
Peace Imran.
. I will sacrifice  the normal rules just one more time and go off topic in this last post to tell you my last 3 stories:

1- GOD is doing a better job nowadays ( and not asking anyone to sacrifice their son or daughter) my grand daughter says so:

My grand daughter  asked, “Did God make me?”
“Yes,”  I replied.
“Did he make you, too?”
“Yes.”
“Well,” looking at my wrinkles and thinning hair, “he sure is doing a better job nowadays!”

2- GOD still knows what everyone is doing nowadays ( This Imam has just realised!):

 Some working construction company was, levelling the corner of a house that they had jacked about 4 inches above the ground. One of the jacks slipped  at the weekend and the house came down with a loud bang.
The next thing , the owner who was the local Imam and a woman who was inside with him, ran out and looked up at the sky. “I thought  you did not really know about this  Allah, please forgive me....

3- Everyone misunderstands me brother. Even my wife thought I was telling her a joke when my story was real( I was knocking at my own door!):

Knock! Knock!
 My wife:Who’s there?
  Me: Mikey.
 My wife: Mikey who?
 Me: Mikey isn’t working, can you let me in?

Thanks for the conversation . Time to go and sacrifice another lamb!!!!
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

imrankhawaja

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Re: Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son? - Eid Al Adha
« Reply #43 on: September 01, 2019, 04:18:15 PM »

Thanks for the conversation . Time to go and sacrifice another lamb!!!!


make sure i want lamb chops grilled one, poor lamb is on trial lol

i just remember movie The Silence of the Lambs must watch movie somehow related with sacrifices.

Jafar

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Re: Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son? - Eid Al Adha
« Reply #44 on: September 01, 2019, 08:19:03 PM »
Peace Jafar.
Firstl bring me where I commemorated anything about Abraham? If you are addressing me. Then add this to it, quote:

When I'm quoting a text, I'm addressing the statement in the quote and not the author / poster of the quote.
Infact most of the time I didn't bother to see who actually posted the statement.

Speaking about sacrificing and commemorating ridiculous "Abraham tradition".
I just found out that a friend of mine 'sacrificed' vegetables in order to commemorate the tradition, the reason being he's a vegetarian now and refused to do anything or even contribute to anything which might caused harm to animals.
He asked me: "Would that still be acceptable by God?"
Which I answered with: "I don't know, but who knows, maybe God loves salad..."
A nice idea though, which makes me wondered what would have happened if Abraham was a vegetarian too..

Islamic version also tell a legend that finally Mr. / Ms Satan is finally doing good this time around...
He/She tried to stop Abraham from murdering his own son, but Abraham shun him/her away by pelting stones at him/her.
Commemorated (only by Muslims) by throwing stones at pillars (jamrah/jamarat) as part of the Hajj ritual.
Which added more inconsistency to already ridiculous legend.
Throw stones to anyone who tried to stop you from murdering your own son...



NK

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Re: Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son? - Eid Al Adha
« Reply #45 on: September 07, 2019, 03:53:27 AM »
It is quite strange that no one in the Quran takes their dreams literally. Prophet Joseph, Two prisoners in the cell, King's dream, Prophet Muhammad etc. They all interpret their dreams as everyone knows that events in the dreams are not literal but allegorical events which requires interpretation.   

Prophet Ibrahim (PBUH) was a very logical person according to Quran. How can he take his dream literally?

huruf

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Re: Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son? - Eid Al Adha
« Reply #46 on: September 07, 2019, 04:03:15 AM »
It is quite strange that no one in the Quran takes their dreams literally. Prophet Joseph, Two prisoners in the cell, King's dream, Prophet Muhammad etc. They all interpret their dreams as everyone knows that events in the dreams are not literal but allegorical events which requires interpretation.   

Prophet Ibrahim (PBUH) was a very logical person according to Quran. How can he take his dream literally?


Exactly, NK.
Thank God  you point that out. Not even in dreams does God tell him to do anything, he simple dreams that he sarifices his son. And that is why, when his son turns older and they go out together, he tells him: I have this dream, my dear son, what do you make of it?

He could not be talking with that even straightfoward manner if what he was taling about was killing his son with his own hands, he would be absolutely overwhelmed.

Once more, supposed Qur'an believers are drowned in sippings of the bible.

Salaam

Jafar

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Re: Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son? - Eid Al Adha
« Reply #47 on: September 07, 2019, 11:07:39 AM »
Prophet Ibrahim (PBUH) was a very logical person according to Quran. How can he take his dream literally?

The earliest evidence about story of Abraham smashing idols, and showing Abraham's superior logic compared to his society during that time, was first appeared in Midrash (300 AD)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_and_the_Idol_Shop

While the story Abraham trying to murder his son was written / authored earlier,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binding_of_Isaac

The Jews / Israelites were known to commemorate the 'Abraham murdering his son' a.k.a as "Akedah" during their "Rosh Hashanah" festival (Jewish New Year). Much earlier than their Christians and Muslims counterpart.

It's clear that the Xtians and Muslims, which appeared much later compared to Judaism, took the same Abraham myth and add some flavors in accordance to their taste, Specifically the Muslims changed the place of events to Mecca and add additional flavors of Abraham throwing stones at the Devil because the Devil was trying to persuade him to stop his murderous events. (Yet another ridiculous myth added to already ridiculous myth). And they're proposing that it was Ishmael that was sacrificed and not Isaac. (Yeah, whatever... it doesn't take away the insanity of the myth anyway)

We may never know what truly happened or even if Mr. Abraham truly exist.
But.... if there are options to commemorate the Abraham myths, let's opted for the "logical Abraham smashing the biggest idol" as written in the Midrash and the Quran.






Wakas

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Re: Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son? - Eid Al Adha
« Reply #48 on: September 07, 2019, 11:56:29 PM »
peace,

It is quite strange that no one in the Quran takes their dreams literally. Prophet Joseph, Two prisoners in the cell, King's dream, Prophet Muhammad etc. They all interpret their dreams as everyone knows that events in the dreams are not literal but allegorical events which requires interpretation.   

Prophet Ibrahim (PBUH) was a very logical person according to Quran. How can he take his dream literally?


See article:
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-Abraham-sacrifice-son.html

Quote:
To end I would like readers to ponder over the following point. Please note the interesting use of different words for 'the sleep/dream' (al manam) in 37:102, and 'the vision' (al ru'ya) in 37:105. Please re-read the verses above.
At first I thought this was unusual but my research of Quran has often taught me that its use of language is precise and for a reason so I decided to dig deeper and I was amazed at what I found. The usage of 'al manam' in Quran always indicates a literal dream meaning, i.e. no interpretation required, but 'al ru'ya' involves foretelling of a future event that requires interpretation. Thus, Abraham saw in his dream/manam that he was literally sacrificing his son in 37:102, but in 37:105 God states he confirmed the vision/ru'ya (i.e. interpreted dream). If Quran had said he confirmed his 'al manam' that could have implied he was about to carry out what he literally saw. Coincidence?

Summary
The Quranic evidence suggests that God tested Abraham with a dream in which he saw himself literally sacrificing his son. However both Abraham and his son correctly understood its meaning/significance, and when Abraham confirmed the vision by leaving his son he was rewarded.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Iyyaka

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Re: Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son? - Eid Al Adha
« Reply #49 on: September 10, 2019, 02:21:01 PM »
peace,

See article:
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-Abraham-sacrifice-son.html

Summary
The Quranic evidence suggests that God tested Abraham with a dream in which he saw himself literally sacrificing his son. However both Abraham and his son correctly understood its meaning/significance, and when Abraham confirmed the vision by leaving his son he was rewarded.
Salam Wakas,

Even if you did not react or take into account my Quranic arguments about the translation of verse 37:103, I would like to thank you for forcing me to look again at this passage on Abraham in Surah 37.
Here is my analysis of the structural observation of this story:

1) Abraham's stories goes from verse 37:83 to verse 37:113 (the longest story that deals with the past among other stories)

2) This Qur'anic narrative can be divided into 2 big blocks :
 - From verse 37-83 to verse 37:93 => Abraham is alone
 - From verse 37:94 to verse 37: 113 => Abraham with his son and alone with Allah

3) In the first narrative block(V83-93) we find 2 elements of "sacrifice":

1. "Sacrifice" of Abraham to his people and his father after denying idols by arguing with them => A definitive separation
2. An attempt fails, by Allah's grace, to "sacrifice" Abraham at a pyre ((37: 97: 4) bun'yānan = a structure / Interesting Root definition => Ibn Faris says this root means to build by linking apart from one thing by another)

3') In the second narrative block(V94-113) we find 1 element of "sacrifice":

1. "Sacrifice" of Abraham who separates himself from his son definitively after helping him to fulfill his vision - Well done for your remark in your article.

But the question that comes to me: By the play of symmetry between the two narrative blocks, where is the altar of sacrifice? (the second element of "sacrifice")

Answer: watallahu lil .. = He heaps it at ...


I know that it does not suit your conclusion but thank you for your help for the meditation, by the grace of allah..
Peace
But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it. (Luke - 11:26)