Author Topic: Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son? - Eid Al Adha  (Read 246 times)

Wakas

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Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son?
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Feedback welcome, especially corrections. Thanks.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

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Iyyaka

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Re: Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son? - Eid Al Adha
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2019, 11:29:04 PM »
Salam Wakas,

You will find a study here https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610603.30

Some points :
(1) The main and original meaning of the word "TaLLa" (root: Ta-Lam-Lam) in Hebrew like in Arabic is to Heap...This is the main corruption in some classic dictionnary
(2) Link this passage with ALL the surah 37 to have a better understanding
(3) Research the structure (determined the key movie sequences) of this passage
=> all this points are discussed in the link above.

Last but MAIN important points :
(1) Before understanding this passage it is imporant to understand what is the vision of God in the Quran : Al-Rahman..
(2) who blows evil into the breasts of men ? (Cf. surah 113-114) Or, clearly here God gives to Abraham a vision..

NB : good remark with the preposition "li" (destination, possession)
But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it. (Luke - 11:26)

Iyyaka

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Re: Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son? - Eid Al Adha
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2019, 11:25:23 AM »
Salam Wakas,

I realize that I rushed to answer you. The points you raise are interesting especially with the word "TaLLa" and "the vision" (al ru'ya).
You could add the verb "ṣaddaqta" in (37:105) with its form 2 (repetition of an effort in time which corresponds well with the word l-ṣābirīna used to characterize Ismael). This verb expresses the idea of ​​an accomplishment, of the realization of something in adequacy with one's desire.

I do not agree with your conculsion especially on the word dhib'hin/sacrifice "(root: Dh-BH) which for me must be takes in a figurative sense of "to devote oneself to" (..in the context of the passage, to a noble and divine cause like the other prophets cited as an example in this surah).
And the reward is that God made sure that his remembrance and his work are saved for posterity (again in coherence with the other prophets cited in this surah).

Otherwise, to return to the word "TaLLa", your approach is interesting and seductive. This words appears in a sequence [B' in my thread] where, just after this words erupts, Ismael disappears and there remains only God and Ismael as if Ismael was no longer present ; and that Abraham, after fulfilling his mission with Ismael, let Ismael continue alone the work begun in this corner of the desert.
So we would have (I repeat your translation) the following successive sequences:

   (1) So when they are submitted => The accomplished is used here so the realization of the vision is finished

   (2) and he (Abraham) brought ** him (son) to *** his (Abraham's) forehead (or side of head). => The accomplished is here also used and according to your conception Abraham says goodbye with tenderness to his son (smaller than him)

   (3) And We called him: "O Abraham," .. => Abraham departed from his son and God thanked Abraham and comforted him in some way because what he did with his son will be remembered in the memories of men.

Finally, there is no time sequence in Surah 37 between the moment of vision and that of realization.
This sequence is found in Surah (2:124-129).
Thus, if it is the case as I think, I lack an element to be convinced by your understanding of the verb "Talla":
How do you translate and understand (2:127) ?
          Muhammad Asad (The Message Of Quran)
          2:127 And when Abraham and Ishmael were raising the foundations of the Bayt, "O our Sustainer! Accept Thou this from us: for, verily, Thou alone art all-hearing, all-knowing!"

Sorry in advance if you have already answered this question elsewhere in this forum.
Knowing that if we trust the Bible on this particular subject Abraham was building altars dedicated to God in different places.

Peace. Thanks for sharing your meditation and reflection.

NB : How do you incorporate images into message ? :)
But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it. (Luke - 11:26)

Mazhar

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Re: Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son? - Eid Al Adha
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2019, 12:12:10 PM »
To understand a text, first ting is to determine the type of text. Without, whatever is perceived it is erroneous. Each type of text has distinct choice of words and structures.

Firstly we should determine the type of text in 37:100-113.

hawk99

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Re: Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son? - Eid Al Adha
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2019, 03:40:25 PM »
Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son?
New article - click HERE

Feedback welcome, especially corrections. Thanks.

No, Allah does not advocate evil.  Abraham's dream was his own.
His intention was to obey Allah but like many who commit evil acts
in the name of Allah he thought that it was Allah who was inspiring him. 
By Allah's blessing and grace and brother Abraham's reflection he
came to his senses and did not carry out the evil deed.


                                        :peace:
The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden

Iyyaka

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Re: Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son? - Eid Al Adha
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2019, 12:08:58 AM »
To understand a text, first ting is to determine the type of text. Without, whatever is perceived it is erroneous. Each type of text has distinct choice of words and structures.

Firstly we should determine the type of text in 37:100-113.
I don't know what you mean by "type of text" but, as Allah says in the Quran, if you isolate passage or ayats you may be erroneous like if you don't have a "Raḥmān-ic" context reading of the text..(put the "Basmala" [1:1] in your heart and as a reading grid).
37:100-113 is not isolated from a bigger structure which is 37:75-148 and of all the surah 37 and surah 38 and surah 2 and all the quran..

For example, the only surah where Abraham AND Ishmael act together is surah 37 and 2...It is not a coincidence : all is linked.

For example, the quality of Ishmael is repeated here :
- 21:85 And Ishmael and Enoch and Isaiah, all of them were persevering. (alssabireena => same root in surah 37.)
- 19:54 And recall in the Writing, Ishmael; he was truthful to his promise, and he was a messenger prophet. (promise ? Which promise ? Look at surah 37..)

@hawk99 => Abraham knows the essence of his master (Rahma as we must know FIRST) and he is able to make the difference between a bad/evil order and a good order. If you read the story of abaraham you will realize that Abraham is someone who doubts and questions the "obvious" things (even from hiw own father !). But in surah 37 there is no place for doubt from Abraham or Ishmael so the vision was clear and the origin has been from God.
But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it. (Luke - 11:26)

Wakas

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Re: Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son? - Eid Al Adha
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2019, 12:13:33 AM »
No, Allah does not advocate evil.  Abraham's dream was his own.
His intention was to obey Allah but like many who commit evil acts
in the name of Allah he thought that it was Allah who was inspiring him. 
By Allah's blessing and grace and brother Abraham's reflection he
came to his senses and did not carry out the evil deed.


                                        :peace:

Is anything you have said actually based on Quran? If so please provide the evidence.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Mazhar

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Re: Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son? - Eid Al Adha
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2019, 01:43:54 AM »
Quote
I don't know what you mean by "type of text" but, as Allah says in the Quran, if you isolate passage or ayats you may be erroneous like if you don't have a "Raḥmān-ic" context reading of the text..(put the "Basmala" [1:1] in your heart and as a reading grid).

How strange! A man working on semitic rhetoric shows ignorance about type of text. Please just google to see how many are types of text and their characteristics, peculiar features. And thereafter look at 37:100-13.

Iyyaka

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Re: Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son? - Eid Al Adha
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2019, 02:11:41 AM »
How strange! A man working on semitic rhetoric shows ignorance about type of text. Please just google to see how many are types of text and their characteristics, peculiar features. And thereafter look at 37:100-13.
Sarcasm brings nothing and read/meditate my text to the end instead of cutting it and take what you want.
And as you know I already posted the structure of this passage here https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610603.30 (Go to the last message)

A clarification: I do not work on the Semitic rhetoric but on the way in which the Koranic speech is structured and coherent and harmonious. Semitic rhetoric is only a tool adapted to the Qur'anic context and to highlight relations between ayats in the Koran
But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it. (Luke - 11:26)

Mazhar

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Re: Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son? - Eid Al Adha
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2019, 02:44:47 AM »
Sarcasm brings nothing and read/meditate my text to the end instead of cutting it and take what you want.
And as you know I already posted the structure of this passage here https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610603.30 (Go to the last message)

A clarification: I do not work on the Semitic rhetoric but on the way in which the Koranic speech is structured and coherent and harmonious. Semitic rhetoric is only a tool adapted to the Qur'anic context and to highlight relations between ayats in the Koran

Ayah 100-113 is a Narrative. Narrative is a Factual Recount. Narrative texts have to do with real-world events and time. The purposes of narrative may be to inform, to persuade and/or to correct the record, rectify the falsities gleaned by people from the Epistemology of Testimony. The main structural components of a narrative are the orientation, the complication and the resolution, and may include a concluding statement or comment in order to sum up the message.

Narrative writing uses time as its deep structure. Language features of narrative text are:

Adverb of time.

Past Tense is used except in conversations.

Time conjunction (when, then, thereat, suddenly, etc)

Specific character. The character of the episode is specific, not general.

Action verbs. A verb that shows an action.

Direct speech. It is to make the episode lively.

The vocabulary is usually everyday language, depending on the subject matter.

When we keep such basic academic points, we can watch the event in the text.