Author Topic: Lot offering his daughters  (Read 248 times)

Amra94

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 261
  • Gender: Female
Lot offering his daughters
« on: June 08, 2019, 02:50:00 PM »
What is your understanding on why Lot offered his daughters to the men in 11:77-79 and 15:67-71?

zigazigha

  • Beginner/Inquirer
  • *
  • Posts: 56
Re: Lot offering his daughters
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2019, 08:31:38 AM »
I remember reading that virgin girls were used in Babylonian temples as prostitutes. Lot was the only one in town who refused to let his daughters become prostitutes. When the people came to his house, demanding that he let them rape his guests, Lot offered his daughters instead, as a way of saying "I'd rather let my daughters work as prostitutes rather than let you rape my guests".

huruf

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 6371
Re: Lot offering his daughters
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2019, 09:18:56 AM »
Lut dis not do such a thing. Luts people were mysonigistic and vicious gangs who dispised women and id not want anything to do with women excepto bear them more members of the gang. Obviously Lut's struggle was tob ring them to reason, to recognize the mixed character of human society and deal with women, not just with themselves males.

Lut is nto telling them anything different from what is always telling them. He is not offering his daughters, he is textually saying: These are my daughters if you are serious (want to do something proper or right) in 15.71 and in 9.78: These are my daughters, they are purer for you.

That is, it is purer for you to deal with women like persons and with respect that to lead the life of segregation of sexes and of using eople for your deabauchery. He is nto oferring them. He would never do such a thing. If you read properly you can see that his daughters are there in front of those he is speaking to. His daughters see and hear and he is not hiding them as they seem to be shunning all their women. Obviously his daughters are  not going to be purer if some pigs use them for their debauchery. 

Saving a man from "homosexuality" to turn him into a raper is certainly no improvement. And his people understand him perfectly. They are not interested in what Lut is preaching, they want their segregated society and to deal with other males in anything of the useless lives.

Salaam

Amra94

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 261
  • Gender: Female
Re: Lot offering his daughters
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2019, 03:55:36 PM »
Lut dis not do such a thing. Luts people were mysonigistic and vicious gangs who dispised women and id not want anything to do with women excepto bear them more members of the gang. Obviously Lut's struggle was tob ring them to reason, to recognize the mixed character of human society and deal with women, not just with themselves males.

Lut is nto telling them anything different from what is always telling them. He is not offering his daughters, he is textually saying: These are my daughters if you are serious (want to do something proper or right) in 15.71 and in 9.78: These are my daughters, they are purer for you.

That is, it is purer for you to deal with women like persons and with respect that to lead the life of segregation of sexes and of using eople for your deabauchery. He is nto oferring them. He would never do such a thing. If you read properly you can see that his daughters are there in front of those he is speaking to. His daughters see and hear and he is not hiding them as they seem to be shunning all their women. Obviously his daughters are  not going to be purer if some pigs use them for their debauchery. 

Saving a man from "homosexuality" to turn him into a raper is certainly no improvement. And his people understand him perfectly. They are not interested in what Lut is preaching, they want their segregated society and to deal with other males in anything of the useless lives.

Salaam
Salam, does that mean he wasn't offering his daughters for marriage either if the men were serious about changing?

imrankhawaja

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 4190
  • Gender: Male
Re: Lot offering his daughters
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2019, 09:00:18 PM »
11:79 قالوا لقد علمت ما لنا فى بناتك من حق وانك لتعلم ما نريد

the word in RED "haqq" = RIGHT most translator interpreted as "interest"

i see the possibilities  here like this..

A  we dont have any RIGHT on your daughters incase the (original daughter). (LUT can never offer his own daughters to the rapists/criminals) i highly reject  that  idea. raping men or women is same crime so LUT can never offer someone crime..
B  we dnt have any right towards the daughter of nation as we dnt do things with people we know..
C or we dnt have any right kind of fun in our women =(wives or prositutes or any women of nation) as we did this for fun to dominate male power....

YOU already know what we want .. which indicate they were after two strangers who were passing by and become LUT gusets for night (as they perceive).

the only nation, not only rob on highways but also they raped the MALE strangers.. which never done by anyone else before...
and most of the times it was GANG rape by using the power of multiple males.. gang rape with women is common whereas with men its very rare event..on top of that , the highway was a trade route and famous one due to which they manage to get lot of victims of their crimes.

it was like a trade-mark of unique type of "gangsters" whoever passed from that area they used to show their (madness/craziness/highly intoxication) ..

once two strangers become the visitors of LUT and he was already aware about the intention thats why the nation came to LUT place demanding the guests and then LUT wanted to save them. untill he was unaware about the CONTROLLERS..

from there he prayed about strength from God and then controllers told him dnt worry MATE look whats coming for them..

quran did not talk about every bit of details but i can guess very nicely what happened after that...(so dnt need to take it as fact ) from now  :rotfl:

now controllers say LUT to chill and packup untill we deal with these gangsters (becoz they refuse to go as LUT was helpless)

fighting start and 2 of my hero angels beat the shit of whole nation = COME now YOU M******  rapists LETS see how much strength you got... all of them get smashed/get beat  by controllers very badly..

angels were punching like MATRIX part 1 movie in which keenue reeves punch the machines hahahaha  :rotfl:
all nation get punch/kicks and they were screaming and first time they lost the match  :bravo:

they are crying and thinking whats just happened with them..
on the other hand LUT was having a cup of tea and watching all that show and then the climax was still waiting for them ...

they were still in pain when the final punishment started and now they dnt even run due to injuries of punching  :rotfl: :yay:

where is your power now ? run now you rats "asteroids" are approaching you while you are in pain...
SO which of the MIRACLES/MARVELS of your Lord you will deny
55:55.

The Sardar

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1443
  • Gender: Male
Re: Lot offering his daughters
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2019, 09:32:47 PM »
Salam/Peace dear sister Amra.

A while i found this from brother Uq and he said this:


  • Lūṭ did not "offer" his daughters to his people, instead, he merely indicated their existence; to this end, the Quran quotes Lūṭ as using the word هؤلاء in 11:78 and 15:71. There is a clear linguistic difference between هؤلاء بناتى These are my daughters and هاكم بناتى Here! Take my daughters: the prior is a demonstrative sentence, the latter imperative. It is important that we do not muddy the meanings of the text of the Quran.
[/b]


I found it from this: https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609009.msg399139#msg399139

Layth

  • Administrator
  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 2700
  • Gender: Male
Re: Lot offering his daughters
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2019, 06:25:05 AM »
What is your understanding on why Lot offered his daughters to the men in 11:77-79 and 15:67-71?

If we look at the verses, I believe the story is clear:



- Lot is clearly aware that trouble is about to happen as his people are known homosexuals and rapists, therefore he is showing stress and anxiety the minute the strangers appear to him.



- His worries come true. His people come to him, in their evil status of having just committed sin and being in a drunken state.
- He is clearly panicking, and as a reaction, tells them to take his daughters instead.

You know we have no interest in your daughters, and you are aware of what we want!

- 11:79 speaks volumes for this incident. While Lot was clearly distressed and in panic, he was still smart enough to make an empty offer of his daughters, to which the people respond: "you know we have no interest in them!"

Therefore, I believe it is clear that Lot did offer his daughters, with the full knowledge and conviction that they would not be harmed because these hardcore flaming homosexuals have no interest in any woman.

`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)

imrankhawaja

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 4190
  • Gender: Male
Re: Lot offering his daughters
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2019, 07:57:39 AM »
literally YES,,,

here are MY daughters.
we dnt have any interest  in YOUR daughters.

metaphorically it could be broader like daughters of nation are also LUT daughters as he was playing the role of messenger. their own wives who are like daughters to LUT in which thye  have little interest, etc..

also if LUT was that smart he can offer the empty offer he also aware about the strength of two strangers as they didnt even felt panic usually if it were two  humans they get panic and afraid but on the other hand LUT wished for superhuman strength to deal with many rapists. heres the thing start  when they tell LUT you dnt need to worry we are here to teach them a lesson what will be in the pages of history after their death... (so  in that context i may agree with layth its not shocking if he  knew/or have idea they are not humans so he offered his nation , when he already know his daughters  will not get harmed) becoz same thing happened with abraham when he offered them a roasted lamb but they refused  to eat ...

controller messengers
when came to human messengers they can b guessed easily same like abraham cloaked it LUT also did thats why he offered them the daughters or may b he was finding a last chance for them as abraham was aksing from angels what will gona happen to LUT and they replied your lord know very well about the innocents , their time is finished  they  held guilty already its aa time to teach them a lesson,so i feel their must be some innocent daughters of nation what walk away with LUT

THIS specific thing about daughters is open to interprete and only God knows as per 3:7
SO which of the MIRACLES/MARVELS of your Lord you will deny
55:55.

Amra94

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 261
  • Gender: Female
Re: Lot offering his daughters
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2019, 09:12:19 AM »
Salam/Peace dear sister Amra.

A while i found this from brother Uq and he said this:

I found it from this: https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609009.msg399139#msg399139
Salam, but even if he simply indicated their existence he still says "they are purer for you" which kinda suggests he's offering them.

Amra94

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 261
  • Gender: Female
Re: Lot offering his daughters
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2019, 09:15:34 AM »
If we look at the verses, I believe the story is clear:

11:77 And when Our messengers came to Lot, he was grieved by them and he felt discomfort for them and he said: �This is a distressful day.�

15:68 He said: �These are my guests, so do not embarrass me!�
15:69 �And be aware of God, and do not disgrace me!�


- Lot is clearly aware that trouble is about to happen as his people are known homosexuals and rapists, therefore he is showing stress and anxiety the minute the strangers appear to him.

11:78 And his people came rushing towards him, and before it they were committing sin, he said: �My people, these are my daughters, they are purer for you, so be aware of God and do not disgrace me regarding my guests. Is there no wise man among you?�

15:70 They said: �Did we not prohibit you from the world?�
15:71 He said: �Here are my daughters if it is your intention.�
15:72 By your life, they are in their intoxication, blundering.


- His worries come true. His people come to him, in their evil status of having just committed sin and being in a drunken state.
- He is clearly panicking, and as a reaction, tells them to take his daughters instead.

11:79 They said: � >:You know we have no interest in your daughters, and you are aware of what we want!
11:80 He said: �If only I had strength against you, or I could find for myself some powerful support.�


- 11:79 speaks volumes for this incident. While Lot was clearly distressed and in panic, he was still smart enough to make an empty offer of his daughters, to which the people respond: "you know we have no interest in them!"

Therefore, I believe it is clear that Lot did offer his daughters, with the full knowledge and conviction that they would not be harmed because these hardcore flaming homosexuals have no interest in any woman.
Yeah it makes sense he only offered his daughters because he knew they would say no..