Author Topic: Qur'an version question  (Read 171 times)

NJada

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Qur'an version question
« on: May 15, 2019, 12:33:26 PM »
Hello Free-Minds forum, I recently began reading the Qur'an, and have so far only a vague idea of what makes Islam what it is.

The version/translation/interpretation I have is the Tahrike Tarsile (1999), just because that was what I happened to find. Could you give me your takes on how this translation compares to others? Do you consider it faithful, as far as translations go? Does it have particular biases? Would those biases necessarily obscure the text? In what ways? I read an article which said it is a Shi'ite translation which was originally printed with many footnotes explaining Shi'a doctrine, but my copy appears to be the same translation but without the footnotes.

How much do you consider that one ought to take into account the branch or sub-branch, sect, denomination, etc. of translators/interpreters?

What do you consider to be the most faithful English version?

[As a side question about the forum in general: Is this forum predominantly made up of Muslims of a certain school of thought within Islam? Or are there any sorts of groups which are positively not attracted to this forum community? Not that I'm trying to reduce you all to labels or something, but I'm aware there are many views on certain matters among Muslims (a healthy amount of disagreement and debate is a sign of a rich, living tradition after all) and I would like to get at least a general idea of how that works out.]

Just so you know something about who is asking, I am a Catholic Christian. I strive my best to be wholly orthodox and am at times frustrated with misrepresentations of my own religion, so I would like to try my best to avoid misrepresenting Islam as I go about these studies. That is why I am asking you, Muslims, rather than simply consulting Islam's critics, and rather than simply reading the Qur'an and trying to interpret it at face-value. Therefore, I welcome detailed and thoughtful answers! I may have some more specific questions later about what I have read so far. Anything else you think I ought to know about the Qur'an or the issue of translation and interpretation would be appreciated.

Thank you for your time and God bless you!

Jafar

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Re: Qur'an version question
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2019, 01:12:06 PM »
Hello Free-Minds forum, I recently began reading the Qur'an, and have so far only a vague idea of what makes Islam what it is.

If by Islam you mean the religion / cult named Islam then the best place to learn is either by listening to cleric sermons and / or read the books titled hadiths.

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Does it have particular biases? Would those biases necessarily obscure the text? In what ways? I read an article which said it is a Shi'ite translation which was originally printed with many footnotes explaining Shi'a doctrine, but my copy appears to be the same translation but without the footnotes.

Anything written by human will definitely contain particular bias...
And I literally mean anything.. including the book titled Quran (or Bible or Gospel or Torah or Harry Potter)

Those biases could potentially obscure your own common sense and troubled your own conscience..

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How much do you consider that one ought to take into account the branch or sub-branch, sect, denomination, etc. of translators/interpreters?

How much? None

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What do you consider to be the most faithful English version?
None either...

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[As a side question about the forum in general: Is this forum predominantly made up of Muslims of a certain school of thought within Islam? Or are there any sorts of groups which are positively not attracted to this forum community? Not that I'm trying to reduce you all to labels or something, but I'm aware there are many views on certain matters among Muslims (a healthy amount of disagreement and debate is a sign of a rich, living tradition after all) and I would like to get at least a general idea of how that works out.]

I think this forum is definitely made up of human...
And just because you don't call yourself with a specific label (such as Muslim) doesn't mean that you're not welcome here and / or this is not your forum.

And definitely there are many disagreement among human..
As long as they're not killing or caused harm to each others because of it.. that is perfectly fine..

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Just so you know something about who is asking, I am a Catholic Christian.
It actually doesn't really matter on what label that you identify yourselves with.. you're a human right?

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I strive my best to be wholly orthodox and am at times frustrated with misrepresentations of my own religion,

What do you mean by "wholly orthodox"?

Your frustration with religion is perhaps caused due to confusion within the dogmas mandated by the religion itself?

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so I would like to try my best to avoid misrepresenting Islam as I go about these studies.
I think most human does misrepresent the meaning of the word islam.
I do recommend you to start from that point.. what is islam? (without the capital I)

good logic

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Re: Qur'an version question
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2019, 02:04:45 PM »
Peace NJada.
These may give an idea:

http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/simple-and-universal-message/

http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/test-page/

There is no religion called Judaism or Christianity or Islam or Shinto or....
There is only GOD s one and only religion: Submission and total loyalty to GOD Alone /GOD s system..
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:Ē I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.Ē

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

Wakas

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Re: Qur'an version question
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2019, 02:45:25 PM »
peace,

Welcome to the forum.

What do you consider to be the most faithful English version?

All translation have bias and are imperfect. Key is applying an intelligent approach, e.g.
http://www.quran434.com/study-method.html

I'd probably recommend Muhammad Asad's or monotheist group. You can read both side by side translations here: http://quranix.org/1

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Is this forum predominantly made up of Muslims of a certain school of thought within Islam?

The forum is dominated by those who follow a Quran based islam. This is unlike most Muslim forums.


You might find these sites helpful:

https://AreYouMuslim.com
http://misconceptions-about-islam.com
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

NJada

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Re: Qur'an version question
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2019, 04:08:53 PM »
Hello human titled Jafar. Thank you for sharing your perspective on this. I have noticed a tendency to avoid labels and sources of religion outside of the Qur'an on this website, so I am glad you give some more explanation of how you see it. As far as I can tell, this may well be itself another form of Islam, whether you avoid labeling it or not; but if that is not so, perhaps you can share something to clarify.
To be clear, even if you do not associate with such words as Muslim and Islam, do you consider the Qur'an to be the primary (or exclusive) source of revelation from God to man? You seemed to say it also has man for it's author, or is that only if it isn't Arabic, or did I misunderstand you? Do you consider the Qur'an in any way unique with regard to this general rule that whatever man writes contains bias?

I have various thoughts concerning the potential problems and uses and benefits of labels, but I'm much more interested in hearing the thoughts of people who strive to live by the Qur'an and am hoping they can indicate a more or less authentic understanding of what is essential to their beliefs and way of life, even if they disagree on many particulars. Not that I'm not interested in hearing about the particulars too.
Being new to reading the Qur'an, I have no way yet of knowing whether your way of approaching your beliefs is more faithful to the Qur'an's teachings than that of those who do use labels. It doesn't seem to be from what I've read so far, but what do I know?-- perhaps you can explain.

I thought the mention of my religion might matter to some people so I mentioned it. If it doesn't matter to you, great. To try to give a quick answer, by wholly orthodox, I mean I believe that God gives the fullness of His revelation to man through His Catholic Church specifically and uniquely, and that, trusting His authority above my own judgment, I therefore believe all the Church's official teachings.

Well, I'm interested to hear something of what you believe concerning islam without the I and the Qur'an, so feel free to elaborate. Thanks for your time.

And thank you good logic and Wakas, I will take a look at your links soon.

Noon waalqalami

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Re: Qur'an version question
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2019, 10:36:10 PM »
How much do you consider that one ought to take into account the branch or sub-branch, sect, denomination, etc. of translators/interpreters?

What do you consider to be the most faithful English version?

peace and greetings welcome to the forum!

they're all horrid with contradictions parroted mistakes too many to list.

Is this forum predominantly made up of Muslims of a certain school of thought within Islam?

"I am a sect by myself, as far as I know." -- Thomas Jefferson

imrankhawaja

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Re: Qur'an version question
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2019, 07:39:11 AM »
Hello Free-Minds forum, I recently began reading the Qur'an,

 God bless you!

hello and welcome to forum,

give it handsome amount of time, hope your beginning bring a fruitful end.
take your TIME and use your God given abilities and tools provided to you..

TIME factor is key to get lot of answers.

God bless you
SO which of the MIRACLES/MARVELS of your Lord you will deny
55:55.

Layth

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Re: Qur'an version question
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2019, 11:12:47 AM »
Salam/Peace,

This website is an Islamic one that mainly centers around the Quran and itís teachings/verses.

We are very much an open forum that encourages debate, questioning, and reason (if a concept canít handle questioning, then it canít be truth).

Welcome and I wish you well on your journey.
`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)

NJada

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Re: Qur'an version question
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2019, 01:56:41 PM »
Hello Good Logic.
Thank you for the links. I read through them. What do you mean when you say "there is no religion called..."? Do you mean that those are false religions, or that they are not really religions at all? Or that there is no essential distinction between religions as long they lead to submission to the one God? Or do you mean something else?

You said, among the others, that there is also no religion called Islam, but that there is God's religion. Your first link says earlier Scriptures taught this religion which is taught by the Quran: is that only the Old and New Testaments, or does that go for others? Do you believe the Quran is a fuller and more reliable source of revealing this religion? Would it be wrong to give it some other name; and if so, why not Islam? Why not say, for example, I believe that the true Islam is the Islam which is guided by no writings except the Qur'an? Is it perhaps that you consider it more something you do (to submit to God) rather than a "thing" to be believed? I recently read, in the midst of some of the dietary ordinances, "This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed my favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion..." (5:3). Would you say, perhaps, that this could just as well have been translated "and chosen for you submission (to God) as a religion," and that this would more closely convey your view of this religion as something universal and not exclusive to the Quran?

But you do also call it God's system, and the Quran does sound to me to describe something of a system, one with various specific requirements (ordinances, instructions, prohibitions) and beliefs that must be kept (such as the resurrection)--some which are to be found in other religions but some which as far as I know are not part of other religions or are even contrary to other religions. Do any of these differences need to be reconciled, or are they not necessarily hindrances to submission to God? While reading the Quran and its various commandments and principles it teaches, if I am to give it its due respect, I would assume these were written in order to be followed. This caused me to wonder what precisely the first link means by, "GOD could not have made His message any simpler than being 'universal'". As an example of this universal simplicity it quotes 21:25: "We did not send any messenger before you except with the inspiration: ďThere is no god except Me; you shall serve/worship Me alone."" I'm reminded of when Christ explained that the love of God is the greatest commandment and love of neighbor is the second greatest, and He then says, "On these two commandments, all the law and the prophets depend" (Matt 22:40). Therefore having this always in mind, we are not dispensed from following all the other teachings, some being more on the particular side and some more universal; on the contrary, the love of God and neighbor--in itself simple and universal--implies and motivates adherence to all the other teachings. Is this similar to what you believe regarding the Quran, that to know that there is one God and to serve and worship Him alone implies and motivates the following of all the other teachings of the Quran? Or is living by the other commandments in the Quran not an necessary part of what it means to serve and worship the one God for those who know Him?

Sorry this is so many questions at once, and some of them are redundant, but they're all meant to clarify what it is you all believe here.

Jafar

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Re: Qur'an version question
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2019, 02:38:55 PM »
Hello human titled Jafar. Thank you for sharing your perspective on this. I have noticed a tendency to avoid labels and sources of religion outside of the Qur'an on this website,

Actually I'm glad that I've seen the tendency of people in this forum to be towards more of avoiding labeling, stereotyping, name calling while embracing any sources which can be the source of truth, and not limiting to only one source, whatever it is.

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To be clear, even if you do not associate with such words as Muslim and Islam, do you consider the Qur'an to be the primary (or exclusive) source of revelation from God to man?

No I don't consider the Qur'an (or Gospel or Torah or Book Of The Dead or Hammurabi Codex or Mein Kampf) to be the primary (or exclusive) source of revelation from God.

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You seemed to say it also has man for it's author, or is that only if it isn't Arabic, or did I misunderstand you? Do you consider the Qur'an in any way unique with regard to this general rule that whatever man writes contains bias?

Yes all books, ebooks, video, audio, stone tablets, scrolls, whatever the title is, are all written for human and by human. And each of them are unique in their own way.

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I have no way yet of knowing whether your way of approaching your beliefs is more faithful to the Qur'an's teachings than that of those who do use labels. It doesn't seem to be from what I've read so far, but what do I know?-- perhaps you can explain.

Zooming into the stories written in the Quran, it told life stories of characters who never ever read the Quran in their entire life; with objective to inspire it's reader regarding their deeds in their life.

Some of them are: Moses, Abraham, Jesus, John, Maria, Zachariah, David, Solomon, Noah.
There is no way that Moses, Abraham, Jesus and friends ever read the Quran during their lifetime given the book wasn't being written yet during their lifetime. Yet the book portray their life story in a good light.

Which makes the book quite unique, as most of characters were actually Israelites yet the book was not written in Hebrew or Aramaic but Arabic.

It's like finding a book which told stories about King Arthur, Lancelot, Gawain, Robin Hood written in French.
Or a book which told stories about Guan Yu, Lu Bei, Zhuge Liang, Jade Emperor written in Hindi...

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I mean I believe that God gives the fullness of His revelation to man through His Catholic Church specifically and uniquely, and that, trusting His authority above my own judgment, I therefore believe all the Church's official teachings.

By "specifically and uniquely" do you mean that God gives the fullness of His revelation ONLY through Catholic Church? and not through other 'channels'?

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Well, I'm interested to hear something of what you believe concerning islam without the I and the Qur'an, so feel free to elaborate. Thanks for your time.

Yes like I said understanding what is islam is a good starting point.

islam is an attitude.

What kind of attitude?
There is nothing which saith it best than this sentence which I think you're very familiar with:
"Let Your Will Be Done, On Earth as It Is In Heaven".

Those who possesed such attitude embodied within their character are being called muslim

Similitude will be the word honest.
Those who never lies and always tell the truth (as he/she knows best) are called honest people.
Yet the meaning of the word started to deviate once a group of people created a religion / cult / sect called  Honest. Thus among the member of Honest one can easily find people who are deceitful.

Another similitude will be Democrats (The Political Party), not all Democrats are democratic and there are many Republicans who are actually democratic although they never call themselves as such.

Within the Quran one can read how Jesus was a muslim, those who have islam as their attitude. But definitely Jesus was not a Muslim or a member of religion named Islam (or Catholic or Orthodox or Protestant) and never ever read the Quran during his lifetime.

Thus does understanding nor reading the book titled Quran is a mandatory requirement in order for one to have islam as their attitude? The answer will be definitely NO.