Author Topic: Jesus was not crucified, he said "I will not die but live"  (Read 7439 times)

jkhan

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Re: Jesus was not crucified, he said "I will not die but live"
« Reply #170 on: October 13, 2021, 03:30:42 AM »


This is also pretty cool... Open your eyes... I hope you have a good vision..



Not bad ya?

jkhan

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Re: Jesus was not crucified, he said "I will not die but live"
« Reply #171 on: October 13, 2021, 03:39:10 AM »
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599509.0


https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598926.0


Read.. Perhaps you get some idea...

If you want to despise dude John,  hate those who duped you with all nonsense.. And spoiled the book of Isa.. Not worthy blaming us.. We never corrupted your book... We are innocent.. Aren't we  uncle John? Tell me aren't we? 
Your cheaters are within your religious beliefs

jkhan

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Re: Jesus was not crucified, he said "I will not die but live"
« Reply #172 on: October 13, 2021, 04:05:17 AM »
Okay... Let's concentrate... Lol..

Let me remind you again...

God is One.. He is not begotten not He begets..
He is far above from having a son...

Our God is the one Adam worshipped... Noah worshipped... Ibrahim worshipped... Musa and all Israelite prophets worshipped... That's our God.. Then how can our God be immoral pagan god?

If what you say is correct then God of musa is pagan... You are checked lovely fellow.. Surrender to God of Musa.. Surrender to God of Ibrahim.. Surrender to God of Noah.. Surrender to God of Adam... Would you?  Or have you already?

God of Musa is not Jesus... God of Ibrahim is not Jesus...
Oh shame... Where is your common sense.. Use your wits..

Are you ready to surrender to God of Moses?  If Yes.. Then you have surrendered to God of Muhamed...
Are you ready to surrender to God of Jesus? If Yes.. Let God decide your fate... Don't make yourself a fool while God has given you at least some knowledge and opportunities to read multiple books...

Shall I advice you thing... Say God is One..  :yes :tempt:

Take care big brother...  I am not your enemy nor friend... Your faith is for you and mine for me... Even if you claim that I accept God is One it won't make any difference to anyone here.  We don't want numbers of believers to be more.. It is not our anticipation... See today one brother got back to fath again in God. It is his life his decision.. Same you.. Why I spend time with you is to pass the message.. That's it..

John

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Re: Jesus was not crucified, he said "I will not die but live"
« Reply #173 on: October 14, 2021, 12:03:20 AM »
PART 4 of 90 Verses says: Jesus is not God

1.   “Bible says that God is not man’, ‘God is not a man’ (Numbers 23:19), ‘For I am God, and not man’ (Hosea 11:9), ‘God is not a man nor a son of man’ (Numbers 23:19)

My response: Again, the guy is either a complete moron or an inveterate liar, as he only half quotes from the Bible. You decide what he is.

Numbers 23:19 actually says is ““God is not a man, that He should lie”.

In context Hosea 11 says, “My people are bent on backsliding from Me.
Though they call to the Most High, none at all exalt Him.
“How can I give you up, Ephraim? How can I hand you over, Israel?
How can I make you like Admah? How can I set you like Zeboiim?
My heart churns within Me; My sympathy is stirred. I will not execute the fierceness of My anger; I will not again destroy Ephraim.
For I am God, and not man, The Holy One in your midst; and I will not come with terror.”

IN CONTEXT, this passage is demonstrating that the God of the Bible is the exact opposite of the (fake) god of the Koran, because the latter is untrustworthy, deceitful and a murderer.

So, apropos the expurgated Bible quotes, it comes down to one of two unenviable choices: If the guy is so much an idiot that you can’t trust him to quote accurately something so rudimentary as cutting-and-pasting, how can you trust him on the big picture item who Jesus is OR if the guy is so much a liar that you can’t trust him to quote truthfully something so rudimentary as cutting-and-pasting, how can you trust him on the big picture item who Jesus is?

2.   “Jesus is called a man many times in the Bible”

My response: Ahhh, so what? I really don’t see this fool’s point. Of course the incarnate Word of God, Jesus, is a man. Every Christian knows that’s true; it’s whether or not he’s God that is the other half of the story – and I’ve proved he is by Jesus’ own words.

So with that sorted out I won’t address all the Bible verses he’s included because no Christian has any beef about these.

But there is a point I do wish to make. Muslim always say the Bible is not really the book that God gave Jesus or Moses or whomever, with the corollary that it can’t be trusted because of that. Yet, they with uncontrollable alacrity will quote from the same book to prove something or other that stands in antithesis to orthodox Christianity. To spell it out further, if the Bible is untrustworthy, how can you then trust it sufficiently to use it to buttress your argument. Seems awfully inconsistent and might just be termed hypocrisy.

Hang on: change of mind. I will address these quotes just to show the person who cut them from the Bible is either a first-class IDIOT or someone replete with perfidy. Take your pick!

a.   ‘a man who has told you the truth’ (John 8:40)

My Response: Jesus FULL sentence, which is but a small section of a very long conversation (unlike your fake book, the Koran, which is one unconnected sentence followed by a series of other unconnected sentences!) is this: “But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God.” Jesus heard DIRECTLY from God? How’s that possible? The answer comes almost immediately.

Jesus accuses the Jewish leaders of being in league with Satan for NOT believing who is truly is. He then states emphatically how he has direct contact with God: ““If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God” (v.42) The Greek is very clear here and means ‘to come out of’. Jesus is NOT claiming he was merely in the presence of God but something far more extraordinary.

Jesus then backs up this statement by making an UNAMBIGUOUS claim that HE IS GOD. He says that not only did he meet Abraham some 2000 years earlier, but that he PRE-EXISTED Abraham and was in fact ETERNAL. The Jews understood his claim PERFECTLY and went to execute him ON THE SPOT for BLASPHEMY. Here’s the conversation:
“No,” replied Jesus, “I am not mad. I am honouring my Father and you are trying to dishonour me. But I am not concerned with my own glory: there is one whose concern it is, and he is the true judge. Believe me when I tell you that if anybody accepts my words, he will never see death at all.”

“Now we know that you’re mad,” replied the Jews. “Why, Abraham died and the prophets, too, and yet you say, ‘If a man accepts my words, he will never experience death!’ Are you greater than our father, Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets—who are you making yourself out to be?”

“If I were trying to glorify myself,” returned Jesus, “such glory would be worthless. But it is my Father who glorifies me, the very one whom you say is your God—though you have never known him. But I know him, and if I said I did not know him, I should be as much a liar as you are! But I do know him and I am faithful to what he says. As for your father, Abraham, his great joy was that he would see my coming. Now he has seen it and he is overjoyed.”

“Look,” said the Jews to him, “you are not fifty yet, and has Abraham seen you?”

 “I tell you in solemn truth,” returned Jesus, “before there was an Abraham, I AM!”

At this, they picked up stones to hurl at him, but Jesus disappeared and made his way out of the Temple.” (John 8)

The I AM that Jesus has just affixed to himself is the same name that God told Moses was his name. See Exodus, the second book of Torah, chapter 3, verse 14.

b.   ‘Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know.’ (Acts 2:22)

My response: The very next verse refutes just about everything that Islam falsely ascribes to Jesus: Peter, a part of Jesus’ inner circle of disciples, says to the Jewish crowd, “This man, who was put into your power by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed up and murdered, and you used for your purpose men without the Law! But God would not allow the bitter pains of death to touch him. He raised him to life again—and indeed there was nothing by which death could hold such a man.” (Acts 2:23)

This same chapter, quoting the ancient prophet Joel, says that “whoever calls on the name of YHWH shall be saved.” Peter following this public evangelistic outreach, meets with the Jewish religious leaders: “At this Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit [can’t be Gabriel as it would make no sense whatsoever!], spoke to them, “Leaders of the people and elders, if we are being called in question today over the matter of a kindness done to a helpless man and as to how he was healed, it is high time that all of you and the whole people of Israel knew that it was done in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth! He is the one whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, and it is by his power that this man at our side stands in your presence perfectly well. He is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone’. In no one else can salvation be found. For in all the world no other name has been given to men but this, and it is by this name that we must be saved!” (Acts 4:8-12)

Neither your fake prophet Muhammad nor your equally fake and pagan god Allah can save you from your sins. Only the Lord Jesus can. No repentance, then you will die in your sins. Day after day they mount up and every time you refuse to heed the call of Him, means you continue to die in your sins until death arrives.

c.   ‘He will judge the world in righteousness through a man whom He has appointed’ (Acts 17:31)

My response: So you and I agree that Jesus was a man. However, since this idiot or liar quoted the passage to prove his point he must also agree that Jesus will judge the world. I thought you guys believe that God and only God is the judge of the world?

Again, he only half quotes the passage. It immediately continues on with this: “That this is so he has guaranteed to all men by raising this man from the dead.” (v.31) Jesus himself stated EXACTLY the same thing: “For just as the Father raises the dead and makes them live, so does the Son give life to any man he chooses. The Father is no man’s judge: he has put judgment entirely into the Son’s hands, so that all men may honour the Son equally with the Father. The man who does not honour the Son does not honour the Father who sent him… For just as the Father has life in himself, so by the Father’s gift, the Son also has life in himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is Son of Man…I am the good shepherd, and I know those that are mine and my sheep know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father. And I am giving my life for the sake of the sheep. And I have other sheep who do not belong to this fold. I must lead these also, and they will hear my voice. So there will be one flock and one shepherd. This is the reason why the Father loves me—that I lay down my life, and I lay it down to take it up again! No one is taking it from me, but I lay it down of my own free will. I have the power to lay it down and I have the power to take it up again.” (John 5 & 10)

d.   ‘the man Christ Jesus’ (Tim. 2:5)

My Response: Again, he only half quotes. The full quote is, “ In the sight of God our saviour this is undoubtedly the right thing to pray for; for his purpose is that all men should be saved and come to realise the truth. And that is, that there is only one God, and only one intermediary between God and men, Jesus Christ the man. He gave himself as a ransom for us all—an act of redemption which happened once, but which stands for all times as a witness to what he is.” (1 Tim. 2:3-6)

BTW, the idiot or liar can’t even cite the reference accurately. It’s the first epistle to Timothy.

FYI, the epistle goes on to state that “And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up in glory.” (4:16)

John

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Re: Jesus was not crucified, he said "I will not die but live"
« Reply #174 on: October 14, 2021, 12:13:53 AM »


This is also pretty cool... Open your eyes... I hope you have a good vision..



Not bad ya?

You neither read Greek nor Hebrew, so the only conclusion I can draw from this is that you have no understanding what the text says. Unimpressed.

But that aside, when you have worked hard to get a degree in this subject, forgoing everything, staying up late or starting early doing your research or writing your papers, reading, oh, I don't know, maybe 50 books and 100 or more papers to get your head around one item, and you find some kid coming along who thinks research is quote mining from the net (and who, btw, doesn't even understand a single thing about the subject and who still lives at home with mummy and daddy), you realise you aren't dealing with an educated or intellectual equal. Nope, far from it.

So back to the big black stone...I guess it must feel great that your small clique numbering a few thousand members are the true Muslims. Congrats! I hear your pagan god is well pleased.

jkhan

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Re: Jesus was not crucified, he said "I will not die but live"
« Reply #175 on: October 14, 2021, 12:49:12 AM »
You neither read Greek nor Hebrew, so the only conclusion I can draw from this is that you have no understanding what the text says. Unimpressed.

But that aside, when you have worked hard to get a degree in this subject, forgoing everything, staying up late or starting early doing your research or writing your papers, reading, oh, I don't know, maybe 50 books and 100 or more papers to get your head around one item, and you find some kid coming along who thinks research is quote mining from the net (and who, btw, doesn't even understand a single thing about the subject and who still lives at home with mummy and daddy), you realise you aren't dealing with an educated or intellectual equal. Nope, far from it.

So back to the big black stone...I guess it must feel great that your small clique numbering a few thousand members are the true Muslims. Congrats! I hear your pagan god is well pleased.

Truth is bitter tasted... just deal with it..

as long as your intention is to hide dark patches in Bible, you will not find truth in other books.. happy journeys

jkhan

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Re: Jesus was not crucified, he said "I will not die but live"
« Reply #176 on: October 14, 2021, 01:02:13 AM »

Neither your fake prophet Muhammad nor your equally fake and pagan god Allah can save you from your sins. Only the Lord Jesus can.



Really.. So Jesus will save me from my sins (whatever it is)... would you please pass my thanks to your Lord Jesus.. lol

So reiterate... again and again emphasize ...
Since God of Muhammed is pagan and fake... God of All monotheists (Noah, Ibrahim Musa and all) are pagan and fake.. because, our God is none other than the God of Ibrahim, etc..etc..

Pagan is the one you have been duped with...

John

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Re: Jesus was not crucified, he said "I will not die but live"
« Reply #177 on: October 14, 2021, 01:38:54 PM »
PART 5 of 90 Verses says: Jesus is not God


1.   “The Bible says that God is not a son of man…The Bible often calls Jesus ‘a son of man’ or ‘the son of man.’

My response: This guy is the real deal moron. He hasn’t bothered to research what Christians believe about Jesus. He thinks he has discovered something that no one else has known about in 2000 years. All I can say is, ARROGANT.
 
Of course Jesus is fully man and thus is a Son of Adam (i.e. the Hebrew word for ‘man’).

2.   “The Bible says that Jesus denied he is God”

My response: As I have detailed elsewhere, EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE. Jesus, in a plethora of places, confirmed he was God. Jesus demanded the same honour due to the Father; said he was the judge of all men; was the origin of life and that life was in him; said he was the Creator; said only through him was their eternal life; said only he could forgive sins; said he would raise the dead on the last day etc etc…no mere human claims or possesses this authority.

What he unambiguously denied was that he was God the Father. Just as my father and I are separate persons, but belong to the same class called Human or Homo sapien, so Jesus could distinguish himself from the Father but claim equality with him because both are God (not gods!). Just as there is only a single class called Human or homo with many individuals, likewise there is only 1 class called God to which both the Father and the Son belong.

a.   “Jesus spoke to a man who had called him ‘good,’ asking him, ‘Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.’ (Luke 18:19)”

My response: This actually proves the exact opposite of what this idiot thinks it proves. Jesus is actually stating he is God. Follow the logic.

Either Jesus is good or he’s not good. If he’s not good, then obviously he’s not good. But if he’s not good, why follow someone who is a sinner. However, if he is good – and no where in the Gospels can we see where he lied, murdered, stole, had sex with an underage child, was a sex addict, committed adultery, stole other men’s wives, ordered his followers to murder his “enemies” – then by definition he is God.

b.   “And he said to him, ‘Why are you asking me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.’ (Matthew 19:17)”

My response: Why is this a denial of his not being God? Is this idiot implying Jesus is not good?

c.   “Jesus did not teach people that he was God”

My response: On the contrary, he did over and over again. Even one of his disciples called him God. Thomas, upon seeing him after his death and resurrection, said to Jesus, “Ho kurios mou kai ho theos mou.” Translated, Thomas said, “The Lord of me and the God of me.”
Jesus has previously stated that he would die, be dead for 3 days and then resurrect his own body. He did this, hence Thomas’ claim that he was now facing God, the risen incarnate Christ.

d.   “If Jesus had been telling people that he was God, he would have complimented the man. Instead, Jesus rebuked him, denying he was good, that is, Jesus denied he was God.”

My response: I have a huge problem here. I continue to vacillate between thinking this guy is a liar or a complete moron because his dishonesty or idiocy keep on mounting up with every attempt to “disprove” Christianity.

The idiot’s statement makes no sense. First, Jesus had told many people he was God. For example, his disciple Phillip asked to see the Father. Jesus replied, “Have I been such a long time with you without your really knowing me, Philip? The man who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The very words I say to you are not my own. It is the Father who lives in me who carries out his work through me. Do you believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? But if you cannot, then believe me because of what you see me do.” (John 14)

Second, I can’t see how he has concluded that if Jesus had been telling people he was God then the man would have complimented the man. I just can’t see how he can draw these two propositions together. What had the man said that would have led him to high-five Jesus? As I said, his syllogism is a non sequitur.

Third, he didn’t rebuke him for calling him good. The word ‘rebuke’ is not there. This liar has tendentiously added it in.

Fourth, this moron has claimed Jesus is not good. That’s a serious charge against the Messiah. Also, where does it say that Jesus was not good?

3.   “The Bible says that God is greater than Jesus”

My response: Notice how this liar/moron replaces a word. In this statement he has the word ‘God’ but in the following he quotes Jesus directly and Jesus uses the word ‘Father’. No where does Jesus ever say that God is greater than he, meaning Jesus is not God.

a.   ‘My Father is greater than I’ (John 14:28)

My response: The word in this passage is ‘meizon’. It does NOT mean ‘better in quality’ or superior. There is another word for this. Meizon means greater in magnitude, literally or figuratively. Also, the context decides what a word means. The context here was that Jesus had just explained to the disciples he was going to be executed and return to the Father’s side because being his glory was there.

My own father is greater than I in some respects, yet we are equal with regard to other criteria. He, by the fact that he is MY FATHER and ontologically possesses FATHERHOOD is superior to his son, me. That is what being a father is: it is by definition greater than being a son. On the other hand, both of us can vote, drive a car, have a house, smoke, drink, marry…

b.   ‘My father is greater than all.’ (John 10:29)

My response: Again context. In the previous verse Jesus had said that he gives eternal life, that no other being has the power to stop him, Jesus, giving eternal life to those who follow him. The reason why is that the Father has given these people to Jesus and no other being can stop this occurring because the Father is greater than any other being who could try to stop this happening.

What this idiot/liar doesn’t tell you is that, upon hearing Jesus says this, the religious leaders “took up stones again to stone him” for blasphemy (v. 31) They understood he was claiming to be God.

c.   “Jesus can not be God if God is greater than him. The Christian belief that the Father and son are equal is in direct contrast to the clear words from Jesus.”

My response: Never trust a man who by his very nature is either an idiot or a liar.

First notice the solecism. In English we do NOT say ‘greater than him’ but ‘greater than he’, as in ‘greater than he is great’.

Notice, again, he writes “if God is greater than [Jesus]”. Jesus does NOT say this. Jesus says “the Father is greater than I”. The two are not equivalent and communicate a huge difference. One says Jesus is not God the other does not say Jesus is not God.

But most importantly, in the 30th verse Jesus states that “I and my Father are one.” Say what? This is a statement the idiot/liar omitted. He did not want you to see this and he knew you would be too lazy to check his reference. The guy’s a con artist and you’re being fooled.

John

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Re: Jesus was not crucified, he said "I will not die but live"
« Reply #178 on: October 14, 2021, 01:44:20 PM »
Truth is bitter tasted... just deal with it..

as long as your intention is to hide dark patches in Bible, you will not find truth in other books.. happy journeys

"Hide patches in Bible"????

You're delusional! How can it be on public view on the net, in books, the subject of millions of academic articles, the focus of international conferences, part of undergraduate and post-graduate studies, yet you claim it's hidden? Talk about whacky Muslim conspiracy theories. You do realise you're not overly bright?

Anyway, as I said, you don't read Classic Greek or have studied the subject of textual analysis and so cannot understand the importance of this MS and the emendations. Blind leading the more blind.

John

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Re: Jesus was not crucified, he said "I will not die but live"
« Reply #179 on: October 14, 2021, 01:50:08 PM »
Really.. So Jesus will save me from my sins (whatever it is)... would you please pass my thanks to your Lord Jesus.. lol


Throughout his career Deedat continually mocked God. Eventually God silenced him, made him mute for c. 10 years. See here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HolzqRDo4g

Be careful mocker. As the Scriptures declare, "Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows." (Galatians 3)