Author Topic: Hafs or Warsh  (Read 839 times)

good logic

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2018, 01:58:08 PM »
Peace All.
 This question will remain no matter how many manuscripts you study, or they differ in spelling and numbering:
Which copy is the original copy of the prophet?  Evidence?

As for probabilities, Mathematics is the only Science that can give 100% proof.
GOD bless.
Peace.
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imrankhawaja

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2018, 08:09:18 PM »

Which copy is the original copy of the prophet?  Evidence

copy from rk
evidence is verses of chap nine is added later and the numbering is checked by 19 formula.

unique aspects of formula i think just one is enough to believe

it never changes the pattern/method/style
wishful thinking works and make you feel happy.

happiness is all what we can get from it. and i think one whos happy is richest person in
this world.

i just dnt understand why people beat around the bush.

and i want to break something but no hard feelings
 i ve seen the debates between the pillars of number nineteen vs two blessed minds guys like noon and ayman. both of you knock these pillars out and audience saw it how strategically they change their sides giving no answer whatsoever. still they want debate at that time we have quality debates atleast.

but now to b honest the nineteen followers have issues with their own simple original mathematics  :rotfl: atleast some comedy is going on here

number 19 is a big joke of nineteenth century but sometimes jokes take the life of people moral some jokes are dangerous specially number jokes lol

SO which of the MIRACLES/MARVELS of your Lord you will deny
55:55.

imrankhawaja

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2018, 08:21:12 PM »
i think atleast 1000000 or more versions of quran being generated by people but

from one master copy

which master copy ? million dollar question but a tricky one coz a speech when recorded with pen take a form of book thats also happened with quran so question crumbles itself here anyway lets go with traditional history.

 the better copy overtake the original copy in start( ) destroyed  or may b saved somewhere.
then more versins of quran with vocal marks.
then more verision with dots.
then more versions with numberings  :confused:
khalifa copy was best copy in numbering field becoz he ws the first one who proved from hadith about the tempring of quran what a great copy
after lot of version frim ONE copy with different man made things started getting popular
and then two big investors with names warsh/hafz captured the printing rights of quran as we know it was always a best seller

hafz/warsh sime more version and then more verision under the license of these two big market captures


SO which of the MIRACLES/MARVELS of your Lord you will deny
55:55.

The Sardar

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2018, 09:20:05 PM »
i think atleast 1000000 or more versions of quran being generated by people but

from one master copy

which master copy ? million dollar question but a tricky one coz a speech when recorded with pen take a form of book thats also happened with quran so question crumbles itself here anyway lets go with traditional history.

the better copy overtake the original copy in start( ) destroyed  or may b saved somewhere.
then more versins of quran with vocal marks.
then more verision with dots.
then more versions with numberings  :confused:
khalifa copy was best copy in numbering field becoz he ws the first one who proved from hadith about the tempring of quran what a great copy
after lot of version frim ONE copy with different man made things started getting popular
and then two big investors with names warsh/hafz captured the printing rights of quran as we know it was always a best seller

hafz/warsh sime more version and then more verision under the license of these two big market captures


56:77 انه لقرءان كريم
Innahu laqur-anun kareemun
It is an honorable Qur'an.

56:78 فى كتاب مكنون
Fee kitabin maknoonin
In a protected Book.

85:21 بل هو قرءان مجيد
Bal huwa qur-anun majeedun
No,it is a glorious Qur'an.

85:22 فى لوح محفوظ
Fee lawhin mahfoothin
In a tablet, preserved.

good logic

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2018, 08:44:14 AM »
Peace Imran.
I keep it simple here.
1-So you will never know which copy was sent originally. Are you satisfied with that? Only there will always be doubt with your method.
2- So GOD has not preserved the original copy?

3-Why would "the future belong to GOD, wait..." mean to you? Are you still waiting for something about Qoran?

4- The "witness from Beni Israeel" has seen a similar phenomenon in "Tawrat". That was also a numerically structured book.
Or in your opinion who was this "witness from Beni Israeel" and what did he witness?
...Let us leave it at this simple stage for now.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say: I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.

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Noon waalqalami

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2018, 12:38:37 AM »
4- The "witness from Beni Israeel" has seen a similar phenomenon in "Tawrat". That was also a numerically structured book.

peace, "context is your friend" refers to witness at that time about revelation not numerology.

12:26 قال said هى she راودتنى sought to seduce me عن about نفسى myself وشهد and witness شاهد witness من from اهلها family hers ان if كان be قمىصه shirt his قد torn من from قبل front فصدقت so sincere she وهو and he من of الكذبىن the liars

46:9-10 قل say ما not كنت am I بدعا innovation of من among الرسل the messengers وما and not ادرى knows I ما what ىفعل doeth بى with me ولا and not بكم with you ان indeed اتبع follows الا only ما what ىوحى inspired الى to me وما and not انا I am الا except نذىر warner مبىن clear قل say اراىتم have seen you ان if كان be/is من from عند near/with الله the god وكفرتم and reject you به in it وشهد and witness شاهد witness من from بنى sons/children اسرىىل Israel على on مثله similitude it فامن so believes (he) واستكبرتم and acts arrogant you? ان indeed الله the god لا not ىهدى guided العهم the folk الظلمىن the wrongdoers

good logic

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2018, 02:05:33 AM »
Peace Noon.
I think even you know that the similarity of the two revelations here is in the numerical composition, why:
1- Who is this witness?
2- What did he witness to be similar?

My take is the witness is Rabbi Judah the Pious (11th Century A.D.), who discovered the same 19-based mathematical code in intact fragments of the Jewish scripture ( NOTE: The subject of 46:10 is saying "What if it is from GOD.." some sort of clear proof that Qoran is from GOD?!)

You give me your take on it(46:10?
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say: I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.

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huruf

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2018, 03:04:35 AM »
I do not know whether it was in this thread or another, somebody said that there are may be 20 different versions of the Qur'an.

My questions: which are those versions and what do the differences consist of?

Are any of those versions contradictory to one another?

Like a poster in another forum ferences, between hafs and warsh are very slight, like a synonym instead of another syninym, which give different nuances but which basically do not alter the fundamntal meaning.

So can anybody here quote two different versions of Qur'an, arabic Qur'an which differ to the point of being contradictory?

Salaam

good logic

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2018, 03:39:45 AM »
Sister huruf, that is a very good point. And I agree that the differences are not impacting on the context . GOD s message is in all of them intact.

Nevertheless ,GOD has answered those who claim there are differences ,hence it is not from GOD.

It is clear there are verses in Qoran that point to GOD s design and perfection. GOD has sent words and preserved them in a master tablet. GOD has then issued a challenge in Qoran(In words and numerical composition) to those who still argue Qoran is not from GOD.
Of course there are also those who know /claim it is from GOD but refuse to accept the "number composition", claiming it is coincidence. GOD also knows this, that why the  verses are there in Qoran.
All GOD is saying to all of us is that His scripture is "perfect and planned". GOD does not do errors. coincidence or mishaps.
GOD is perfect and does not err.
Those who listen to the message, accept it and apply it in their life do not have to worry about numbers or differences. Our minimum salvation depends on our deeds and intentions.
Fro me the instinct inside me is shouting this Qoran(When I read/study it) is from GOD regardless of numbers, proofs or differences in mushafs.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say: I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

huruf

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Re: Hafs or Warsh
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2018, 05:20:08 AM »
Thank you, good logic,
I agree with you on what we shoud do with the Qur'an.

In my previous post I forgot to mention, that this friend poster I am referring too also said, that in fact those differences are provided by God Himself inthe sense that we may take it either way or both ways or the different ways which ay be complementary.

Reminds me of two translations of ra'uf into Spanish, one was a bit surprising, but looking at it carefully you realised that it was a nuance that might be lost int the other translation although on the whole the latter could be better or more to the point. But without that other more "surprising" translation in fact the reader was missing something.

As to numbers, myself I do not have any trouble believing that there is a numerical pattern in Qur'an, in fact I would be surprised if there was not. I mean, it is God, which computer in the highest fever could match that? Did He not create numbers and all ways of knowledge?


When it comes to which pattern is there in Qur'an, there may be many not just one. I do not know.

I do not have any quarrel with anybody attempting to find any pattern.

On the other hand I see in it a danger, which is the same danger I see when people try to pin on the Qur'an the latest (at  that point) scientific knowledge. It can only be tentative. Knowledge evolves continually and we may tie the Qur'an to something which the Qur'an does not tie itself too, and that ends up turning people against Qur'an because a later knowledge goes against the previous knowledge and the pin the Qur'an to that previous knowledge.

I am sure the Qur'an is scientifically correct, but I doubt very much that we or when we do get it right from the Qur'an, because we are already molded to a previous knowledge and we impose this knowledge ont he Qur'an but we do not extract it from it. or we may feel enthusiastical about some theory and pin it on the Qur'an but in fact it may not be such a great theory after some time. We do not have to tie the Qur'an. We may count on it or get ideas from it, but e should not tie to our ork with such ideas. Qur'an is not there to teach science but to teach us to love knowledge, beauty and truth. The rest is for us to go through our different yihads.

Salaam