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I have accepted the Quran, but with hadith, i am going back and forth!

Started by Ervin, November 27, 2015, 10:39:53 PM

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Ervin

Peace,

I have been thinking and checking the contradictions and I am back to Quran alone. However, I am interested in Arabic medicine from the time and area of the prophet.

The hadith on black dog being a devil is another one I find so difficult to accept. But the ablution being different in the Quran and hadith is the main discrepancy for myself.

When it comes to medicine, I can get a book on prophets medicine or something called Islamic medicine and I can simply reject what doesn't seem like something I would do like drinking camels urine.

Won't be going to the Sufis, apart from the international Sufis.

Something else I would like to say is that, we should respect everyone's right to believe in what they want to believe including sunnis.

Thanks
My real name is also Ervin

The Guided One

Quote from: Ervin on November 28, 2015, 12:41:13 AM

Peace

Yeah, you are right Thimoteus.

I was just checking the other Qurans on the net on the ablution and in the freeminds Quran as well and God says nothing about cleaning your nose, mouth and ears. Also He doesn't speak of washing your feet, but wiping them. Surely, if God says to do it certain way and then prophet Muhammad allegedly says differently, then I have no choice but to accept the Quran. I mean, that's very important since you are supposed to do it every day.

However, the book on medicine explains the medicine from the Quran as well, so I might read those parts. But of course I am not going to take on board the so called ruqya for instance. We all know about honey and that Quran and prayer is medicine itself.

Also, I should probably start praying.

ruqja is ayet from quran, Quranic verses not hadith, so i am not sure, but  i think ruqya is good
The Words and Signs and Mercies of Allah are in all Creation, and can never be fully set out in human language, however extended our means may be imagined to be.

The Guided One

Quote from: Timotheus on November 29, 2015, 04:30:29 AM
That's it hadith had nothing to do with Islam. Whatever medicine it is I am a supporter of herbal or homeopathic solutions and holistic health there's nothing wrong with where you source it but I would look first to modern material I.e scientifically tested herbal or alternative medicine much of old or accident medicine or healthcare has been tested and proven effective but also much of it is based on superstition. I think it's a bit backward to look into hadith or ayurvedic etc etc when we have proven tested science to back up what's good and what's not of it.

For the sake of an example this cumin seed thing. Should I look into a hadith which (I don't actually know what it says but for example) that cumin or honey or whatever cures this this and that or would I look into scientifically proven information based on testing. There's plenty of science behind all these things but I don't see any point or advantage going back in time to read about them.

Selam,

what about this, i do not now what the name is in English https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRkb_rlOuSM What do you think about this, this should clean your blood
The Words and Signs and Mercies of Allah are in all Creation, and can never be fully set out in human language, however extended our means may be imagined to be.

imrankhawaja

if you blindly beleive in the remedy of hadith, then its up to you,

i was reading somehwere if somebody eat 7 ajwa dates no poison or black magic harm him,

is anybody here who eat 7 dates and approach snake(cobra) i cant accept that challange in anyway, i would like to ask from anybody who beleive in hadith and accept this challange,

hanslan

Salam

off-topic

Not much is mentioned about sickness/diseases in the Q.  Perhaps its not important as it is made out to be?
The emphasise is always the mind, state of the mind and development of the mind.


Sahih International38:41-44
And remember Our servant Job, when he called to his Lord, "Indeed, Satan has touched me with hardship and torment."
"Strike with your foot; this is a cool bath and drink."
And We granted him his family and a like with them as mercy from Us and a reminder for those of understanding.
"And take in your hand a bunch and strike with it and do not break your oath." Indeed, We found him patient, an excellent servant. Indeed, he was one repeatedly turning back.


on topic:
since you know you are going back and forth with hadith then just rely on Quran, surely it is the straight path for those without doubt. 
For those in doubt, continue searching in other places. Good luck!


Peace

Nestor

Merhaba Ervin,

There are some historical elements in some Hadith other than the Ahsana AlHadith, but otherwise they should generally be taken with a pinch of salt.

Concerning the Trinity, there is absolutely no difference with Allah but it is not a simple topic fr non-theologians to discuss. AlMasih Yusha of the Trinity is one but not to be confused with AlMasih Eisa ibn Marym. Everything which is said about Allah in the Quran can eequally be said in perfect theology about the Trinity. Christians wuld do well to learn about Allah to understand the Trinity better.

Masalama

يا اهل الكتاب, لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على الثالوث الا الحق. انما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول الثالوث وكلمته القاها الى مريم وروح منه. فامنوا بالثالوث ورسله ولا تقولوا "ثلاثة", انتهوا, خيرا لكم.

Timotheus

Quote from: imrankhawaja on May 16, 2016, 12:52:36 PM
if you blindly beleive in the remedy of hadith, then its up to you,

i was reading somehwere if somebody eat 7 ajwa dates no poison or black magic harm him,

is anybody here who eat 7 dates and approach snake(cobra) i cant accept that challange in anyway, i would like to ask from anybody who beleive in hadith and accept this challange,

according to hadith, Gods entire religion is in vain (an obvious falsehood) because according to hadith, if i die on friday, i automaticaly skip judgement and go straight to paradise. i wonder why we dont see mass suicide of hadith followers every friday if its that simple, which obviously is one of many falsehoods injected into the ahadith.

Praise be to God, who sent down his true criterion for us, so that we may have no doubt.
What could i say that is better than what God has already informed us of?
Follow God
Seek His guidance, the only guidance
Glory and Praise be to God, rabbil Aalameen

imrankhawaja

Quote from: Timotheus on June 29, 2016, 07:00:05 AM
according to hadith, Gods entire religion is in vain (an obvious falsehood) because according to hadith, if i die on friday, i automaticaly skip judgement and go straight to paradise. i wonder why we dont see mass suicide of hadith followers every friday if its that simple, which obviously is one of many falsehoods injected into the ahadith.

Praise be to God, who sent down his true criterion for us, so that we may have no doubt.

basically the purpose of hadith was to filter the falsehood at that  time... the falsehood 0f 600000 lies to 6000 lies in which some lies are true becoz they reference it from quran,  which is very logical, what if hadith is saying God is one, obviously God is one , quran is also saying same thing.. hadith is saying do not murder , do not rob , or do not disobey parents , that's what quran is saying... so they mix a little truth with falsehood , I think mr bukhari generated the book to reduce the falsehood,

but todays people think it is a law beside quran , he himself claim if something is going against quran through that claim of mine on wall.. God knows best what was his real purpose of publishing this book and he was also unable to identify some illogical things and copy it in book just becoz he was also human and human do mistakes  in the books..

everything happen due to a reason these all are tests of life, if God wanted nobody dare to write these books , I believe everything happen due to a reason..

thats how God tests us. we should be honest to God alone and the preference should always be God alone ..in submission.

we need to treat the book of hadith the same way we treated any random book it can be true can b false, simple filter through quran and get results. now a days science is playing part of hadith. science lot of times takes uturn.

the newton laws was believed to be hundred percent true....
but einstien revised it, it does not mean all of his understanding was wrong, but he proved some of his laws are not working someplaces...

now people believe einstien gave us true understanding but again modern science finds lot of missing links in his theories again ,, its a time loop of everything , human being = errors
human books = possibility of errors.
Book of Allah= faultless or error less.
bukhari = human so possibility of errors.

I dnt now why secterians cannot understand this simple thing...

God bless you
peace


Timotheus

Quote from: imrankhawaja on June 29, 2016, 12:08:50 PM
basically the purpose of hadith was to filter the falsehood at that  time... the falsehood 0f 600000 lies to 6000 lies in which some lies are true becoz they reference it from quran,  which is very logical, what if hadith is saying God is one, obviously God is one , quran is also saying same thing.. hadith is saying do not murder , do not rob , or do not disobey parents , that's what quran is saying... so they mix a little truth with falsehood , I think mr bukhari generated the book to reduce the falsehood,

but todays people think it is a law beside quran , he himself claim if something is going against quran through that claim of mine on wall.. God knows best what was his real purpose of publishing this book and he was also unable to identify some illogical things and copy it in book just becoz he was also human and human do mistakes  in the books..

everything happen due to a reason these all are tests of life, if God wanted nobody dare to write these books , I believe everything happen due to a reason..

thats how God tests us. we should be honest to God alone and the preference should always be God alone ..in submission.

we need to treat the book of hadith the same way we treated any random book it can be true can b false, simple filter through quran and get results. now a days science is playing part of hadith. science lot of times takes uturn.

the newton laws was believed to be hundred percent true....
but einstien revised it, it does not mean all of his understanding was wrong, but he proved some of his laws are not working someplaces...

now people believe einstien gave us true understanding but again modern science finds lot of missing links in his theories again ,, its a time loop of everything , human being = errors
human books = possibility of errors.
Book of Allah= faultless or error less.
bukhari = human so possibility of errors.

I dnt now why secterians cannot understand this simple thing...

God bless you
peace



Peace,
yes i agree that hadith should be treated as another human written book.
My problem is this human written book advocates idol worship and other just plain rediculous things, which in my opinion means that it all has to go.. otherwise your mixing truth with falsehood and trying to figure out whats what, when the way i see it, you might as well just go straight to the source of truth, al-haqq, God. and stay with it
Peace
What could i say that is better than what God has already informed us of?
Follow God
Seek His guidance, the only guidance
Glory and Praise be to God, rabbil Aalameen

reel

Quotewe need to treat the book of hadith the same way we treated any random book it can be true can b false, simple filter through quran and get results. now a days science is playing part of hadith. science lot of times takes uturn.
What about this:
6:112 - We have permitted the enemies of every prophet?human and jinn devils?to inspire in each other fancy words, in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.

Science books are not attributing any lies to God and his Prophets. I see no difference between Aleister Crowley and Bukhari co. In fact, Bukharians approved the use of wicca/jewish magic in the form of ruqya.

As for history, have a look at this:


Traditions of the life of Prophet Muhammad and the early history of Islam were passed down mostly orally for more than a hundred years after Prophet Muhammad's death in AD 632. Muslim historians say that Caliph Uthman ibn Affan (the third khalifa (caliph) of the Rashidun Empire, or third successor of Prophet Muhammad, who had formerly been Prophet Muhammad's secretary), is generally believed to urge Muslims to record the hadith just as Muhammad suggested to some of his followers to write down his words and actions. from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith
Collected in the Musnad of Ahmad (10\15-6\ 6510 and also nos. 6930, 7017 and 1720), Sunan Abu Dawud (Mukhtasar Sunan Abi Dawud (5\246\3499) and elsewhere.

If you look at what has been edited out of Bukharian books you will find a  number of fake Quran verses and their history and explanations.

I won't take anything from someone who generates such verses.
Accepting hadith book partially is still like keeping a can of worms opened. If you catch the sunnis they will always tell you they accept only those hadiths that don't contradict with the Quran. But if you tell them to swear whether they are correct they will try to avoid the conversation. Similar attitude is seen when they are asked why they dont remove the contradicting hadiths.

Science books are edited to reflect the newest findings. I will say they can still have lies. But no, they aren't claiming them to be "holy".
"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj