Do you reject hadith and to which degree?

[truthseeker11]

Peace runninglikezebras,

It was clear that you ran like a zebra because I proved to you that a lot more universe exists beyond what we are able to observe and you STILL HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO EXPLAIN HOW TO FACE A PHYSICAL LOCATION OR BUILDING ON EARTH FROM THAT UNOBSERVABLE PORTION OF THE UNIVERSE. You should be able to turn your face towards al-masjid al-haram WHEREVER YOU MAY BE.

Additionally you are still living in Einstein's days. Faster than light travel is theoretically possible according to latest physicists and it was just experimentally confirmed also.

http://www.techtimes.com/articles/49360/20150428/nasa-may-have-accidentally-discovered-faster-than-light-travel.htm

AND YET YOU HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO ANSWER MY QUESTION.

ALSO 2:177 TELLS YOU THAT TURNING YOUR FACES TOWARDS A PHYSICAL DIRECTION DOES NOT MAKE YOU PIOUS OR TRUTHFUL OR RIGHTEOUS THEREBY NOT ENCOURAGING IT. BUT YOU INSIST THAT AL-QURAN ENCOURAGES TURNING FACE IN A PHYSICAL DIRECTION IN CHAPTER 2.

This is just like telling someone to do X and then saying doing X does not contribute towards your progress and does not make you a better person. HUH?

PLUS YOU HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO ANSWER ANY OTHER POINTS IN MY PREVIOUS LONG POST. FOR EXAMPLE

You say that in 2:149

IT = TURNING TOWARDS AL-MASJID AL-HARAM

YET YOU STILL HAVEN'T PRODUCED EVIDENCE FOR THAT.

You invented a nonsensical English sentence the structure of which is NOT IDENTICAL to 2:149. THAT IS NOT EVIDENCE.

ALSO AL-QURAN CLAIMS TO BE FULLY DETAILED AND DETAILS ALL THINGS RELEVANT TO OUR GUIDANCE AND YET DOES NOT TELL US THE PHYSICAL LOCATION OF THE QIBLA. IF IT IS A PHYSICAL LOCATION AL-QURAN WOULD HAVE CLEARLY TOLD US THE PHYSICAL LOCATION.

ALSO SABEEL ALLAH and AL-MASJID AL-HARAM are mentioned right next to each other in 22:25 so if being able to visit them or be devoted in them makes "al-masjid al-haram" a physical location or building, then "sabeel allah" also has to be a physical location or a physical super highway. On the other hand if "sabeel allah" is a mental/metaphorical path then "al-masjid al-haram" also has to be mental/metaphorical in that verse. So either both are physical or both are mental and because "sabeel allah" cannot be physical, both have to be mental concepts.

JUST ANSWERING LAST AND IGNORING AND REFUSING TO SUCCESSFULLY COUNTER SOMEONE'S POINTS DOES NOT MEAN ANYTHING.

NOW YOU WILL COME AND SAY YOU DID COUNTER THEM WHEN YOU HAVEN'T SO IT IS FUTILE TO REPLY TO THAT NONSENSE. I CANNOT REMAIN INVOLVED IN SUCH A DISCUSSION.

Cheers and Peace.

[runninglikezebras]

Peace runninglikezebras,

It was clear that you ran like a zebra because I proved to you that a lot more universe exists beyond what we are able to observe and you STILL HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO EXPLAIN HOW TO FACE A PHYSICAL LOCATION OR BUILDING ON EARTH FROM THAT UNOBSERVABLE PORTION OF THE UNIVERSE. You should be able to turn your face towards al-masjid al-haram WHEREVER YOU MAY BE.

Proving there exists more universe than what we are able to see is irrelevant.  Your statement is totally irrational.  A portion of the universe can not be at the same time be unobservable while having humans living in it.  You seem to be a fan of science fiction, but in reality if men were to travel to such remote places, just by travelling there it would be observable.  Moreover you are claiming we would be able to travel there as mankind faster than light.  This is pure science fiction and it would serve you well to drop this irrational hypothesis, because frankly it is intellectually embarrassing you. 

Additionally you are still living in Einstein's days. Faster than light travel is theoretically possible according to latest physicists and it was just experimentally confirmed also.

http://www.techtimes.com/articles/49360/20150428/nasa-may-have-accidentally-discovered-faster-than-light-travel.htm

Confirmed you are a sci-fi boy.  At the moment it is science fiction and if we are to believe Quran it will always be science fiction.

AND YET YOU HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO ANSWER MY QUESTION.

ALSO 2:177 TELLS YOU THAT TURNING YOUR FACES TOWARDS A PHYSICAL DIRECTION DOES NOT MAKE YOU PIOUS OR TRUTHFUL OR RIGHTEOUS THEREBY NOT ENCOURAGING IT. BUT YOU INSIST THAT AL-QURAN ENCOURAGES TURNING FACE IN A PHYSICAL DIRECTION IN CHAPTER 2.

This is just like telling someone to do X and then saying doing X does not contribute towards your progress and does not make you a better person. HUH?

2:177 does not say turning towards a physical direction is impious.  It's not a prohibition whatsoever.  You seem to ignore this very easily and stick to a distorted understanding of it being a definition of what is impious.  I linguistically explained why it's not using multiple examples. You claim those examples are non-sensical but you don't even bother backing that up.  You seem to be just shouting the same hollow statements over and over again.  Quran does recommend "TURNING YOUR FACES TO"  the KICKER here is "turning a face" is always physical.  If it was not it would say "turn your hearts".  Every kid would understand this.  You clearly don't.

PLUS YOU HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO ANSWER ANY OTHER POINTS IN MY PREVIOUS LONG POST. FOR EXAMPLE

You say that in 2:149

IT = TURNING TOWARDS AL-MASJID AL-HARAM

YET YOU STILL HAVEN'T PRODUCED EVIDENCE FOR THAT.

An "act" that is followed up with "it" ALWAYS denotes the entire act (including the specifics of that act) UNLESS specified otherwise.  Where is your proof it can't mean the inclusive act?  If you were just a little bit intellectually honest, you would admit the inclusive act is not only POSSIBLE but the MOST linguistic PLAUSIBLE interpretation.  Moreover the custom of facing towards a qibla is a custom very recognizable to the people of the Book.  You are yet to provide evidence of this being impossible so far you have only referred to other people while shying away from giving a logic for what's behind the (by lack of proof, hollow) statement.

ALSO AL-QURAN CLAIMS TO BE FULLY DETAILED AND DETAILS ALL THINGS RELEVANT TO OUR GUIDANCE AND YET DOES NOT TELL US THE PHYSICAL LOCATION OF THE QIBLA. IF IT IS A PHYSICAL LOCATION AL-QURAN WOULD HAVE CLEARLY TOLD US THE PHYSICAL LOCATION.

The people of the book, they recognize it like they recognize their sons.  If you aren't of the people of the book you don't recognize it.  As you demonstrate.

ALSO SABEEL ALLAH and AL-MASJID AL-HARAM are mentioned right next to each other in 22:25 so if being able to visit them or be devoted in them makes "al-masjid al-haram" a physical location or building, then "sabeel allah" also has to be a physical location or a physical super highway. On the other hand if "sabeel allah" is a mental/metaphorical path then "al-masjid al-haram" also has to be mental/metaphorical in that verse. So either both are physical or both are mental and because "sabeel allah" cannot be physical, both have to be mental concepts.

Sabeel allah is both physical and metaphysical as explained before.  "The way of Allah" and "Hajj".  But you stick to your superhighways and your muslim ET's who don't know how to face earth.  Good luck with that!

Saying sabeel allah can never be physical is simply a distortion of the truth.  In almost every occurence it can be understood as both.  In Lot when the messengers are obstructed by the crowd, they are obstructed in "sabeel allah" both the mentally (Gods path) and phyiscally (obstructing their road/path).

[runninglikezebras]

Can truthseeker give us a valid example of turning your FACE towards something that is exclusively METAPHYSICAL?

[truthseeker11]

Peace runninglikezebras,

As usual you have regurgitated the same nonsense so impossible to continue discussion.

Can truthseeker give us a valid example of turning your FACE towards something that is exclusively METAPHYSICAL?

THIS IS UNBELIEVABLE. I have already given that example in my previous long post. This is an excellent example of your nonsensical arguments and ignoring my post. Go back and read my previous long post a few pages back at the start of this discussion WHICH GIVES A CLEAR CUT EXAMPLE OF WHAT YOU ARE ASKING FOR. (Reply #36)

Also I have already shown that the "it" in the "sons" verse refers to "the book".

BUT THIS IS IRRELEVANT. WHERE IS THE PHYSICAL LOCATION GIVEN IN THAT VERSE?

THE FACT REMAINS THAT AL-QURAN DOES NOT GIVE A PHYSICAL LOCATION FOR AL-MASJID AL-HARAM.

Readers can see the following posts by Dr. Ayman who is one of the finest Arabic linguists. You will see that he translates

IT = "al-masjid al-haram" in 2:149

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=11651.msg80262#msg80262

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=11496.msg79437#msg79437

I cannot respond to nonsense and asking questions that I have already given the answer to. You can have your last post after this with more nonsense but I am done.

Readers can clearly see that you have not been able to refute WITH EVIDENCE any of the points that I have raised. Keep replying because you are destroying your own credibility and strengthening my points with each reply of yours    

Cheers and peace

[runninglikezebras]

The post you refer to only uses set your face. I asked for examples of TURN your face. Learn to read.

[truthseeker11]

Peace runninglikezebras,

The post you refer to only uses set your face. I asked for examples of TURN your face. Learn to read.

UNBELIEVABLE UNBELIEVABLE UNBELIEVABLE. 

GO LOOK AT IT AGAIN. LEARN HOW TO READ

That's it. After this nonsense I am really done.

I WILL NOT POST ANY MORE REPLIES TO YOU IN ANY THREAD. THAT'S A PROMISE.

Cheers and Peace

[runninglikezebras]

Peace runninglikezebras,

UNBELIEVABLE UNBELIEVABLE UNBELIEVABLE. 

GO LOOK AT IT AGAIN. LEARN HOW TO READ

Cheers and Peace

Turn your face to god is always self contradicting without a physical qibla you airhead. Ditto for turn your face to deen. Remove the qibla from deen and it is self contradicting nonsense

[truthseeker11]

Peace readers,

An interesting fact for everyone.

If you want to face a physical direction and you are off by just 1/10 degrees (0.1 degrees), how far off will you be from the intended physical location at a distance of 10,000 kilometers?

The answer is 17.45 KILOMETERS         

0.1 degree fluctuation is an EXTREMELY SMALL fluctuation from the proper direction. With a fluctuation of just 0.1 degrees off, you will be facing something 17.45 kilometers away from the intended physical point at a distance of 10,000 kilometers.

At 1/100 degree fluctuation (0.01 degrees), you will be off by 1.745 KILOMETERS from the intended physical point at a distance of 10,000 kilometers.     

So everyone can see that it is PRACTICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to turn your face towards a physical location such as a Temple especially at great distances on Earth, even when you don't account for Earth's curvature.

So even if you are off by 0.01 degrees at a distance of 10,000 kilometers, then be prepared to be classified among "those who will turn on their heels", if qibla is physical.

Following is how to do the calculation:

((Degree fluctuation x pi) divided by 180) x distance

In the example given above:

0.1 x pi = 0.31415926535
0.31415926535 divided by 180 = 0.00174532925
0.00174532925 x 10,000 (kilometers) = 17.4532925 kilometers

Peace

[Man of Faith]

Not to mention that the 'Ten Commandments' on the second line said that you should not make any image representation of God...

Be well
Emanuel

[runninglikezebras]

So how do you two bozo's turn your "face to God" then? I disagree btw that an appointed location is an image of God.  Pretty far fetched, as usual.

Which direction is your face pointing when you, as per Quran "set your face to your deen"?  Is it Mecca?  Your belly button?  A random pidgeon?