News:

About us: a forum for monotheists, and discussion of Islam based on The Quran

Main Menu

On intuition and false prophets

Started by Samira1234, June 27, 2015, 08:47:19 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

hicham9

Quote from: Man of Faith on July 01, 2015, 01:06:23 AM
But I do also not agree with your cooked story in http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607082.msg366109#msg366109

I don't expect you to agree with my old input @M0F!
Never asked you to!

Still, you can't deny Luxuria [= Desire, aka. Want (not Need)]!
Nor the degrading "fruit" between your legs, for that matter.

Adamites are born debased. In a debased world ... Welcome to the Lower Life.

Quote from: Man of Faith on July 01, 2015, 01:06:23 AM
since neither Shaytaan nor Ebless exist as persons it is none other than the Rabb who is responsible for the organ in the lower parts.

So, you blame G-D for having Lust?

Ps. you keep parroting "Rabb" this "Rabb" that!
What does Quranic RB mean in English @M0F!?
I was not delivered in this world into defeat, nor does failure course my veins.
I'm not a sheep waiting to be prodded by my shepherd. I am a lion, and I refuse to talk, walk or sleep with the sheep.

Man of Faith

QuoteI don't expect you to agree with my old input @M0F!
Never asked you to!

Still, you can't deny Luxuria [= Desire, aka. Want (not Need)]!
Nor the degrading "fruit" between your legs, for that matter.

Adamites are born debased. In a debased world ... Welcome to the Lower Life.

"Adamites" are born to participate in a test being deceived by the body they have been attached to. The body does not belong to them and they are to become a mirror soul of the Sustainer under the harshest of environments. The Sustainer will harvest the good fruit. Satan does not exist as a person and there was never any temptation exposed on Adam. The temptation is ongoing and that is the world which is part of some test environment.

QuoteSo, you blame G-D for having Lust!?

No, not really, I understand that some environmental measures had to be taken to produce the very best harvest since only the really good seeds grow into something worth reaping.

The body is a trap, Mr. Hicham. It was meant to deceive. It is only that people need to understand this fact to save themselves out of Gehennom.

QuotePs. you keep parroting "Rabb" this "Rabb" that!
What does Quranic "RB" mean in English @M0F!?

Please excuse me. It was corrected in this post. I wrote the English equivalent.

Be well
Website reference: [url="http://iamthatiam.boards.net"]http://iamthatiam.boards.net[/url]

hicham9

Salute @M0F!

Quote from: Man of Faith on July 01, 2015, 07:10:39 AM
"Adamites" are born to participate in a test ...

Of course our (finite) existence on earth is a test!

What the people wish to know is why are we being tested in the first place.

Quote from: Man of Faith on July 01, 2015, 07:10:39 AM
... there was never any temptation exposed on Adam.

Quran (7:20 and/or 20:120) says otherwise!

Quote from: Man of Faith on July 01, 2015, 07:10:39 AM
... The body is a trap, Mr. Hicham.
It was meant to deceive. It is only that people need to understand this fact to save themselves out of Gehennom.

I beg to differ.

To me, the body is not a "trap," nor the "enemy"!

My body is a vehicle/apparatus (assigned to me, a "spermatozoid," to use) ...

Quote from: Man of Faith on July 01, 2015, 07:10:39 AM
Please excuse me. It was corrected in this post. I wrote the English equivalent.

To my knowledge, Quranic RB (رب) doesn't mean "sustainer" [nor "foundation"],
but: Master, Chief, or simply: Superior [from RBB ~ to be great, or significant].

SLM
I was not delivered in this world into defeat, nor does failure course my veins.
I'm not a sheep waiting to be prodded by my shepherd. I am a lion, and I refuse to talk, walk or sleep with the sheep.

Man of Faith

Greetings hicham,

QuoteOf course our (finite) existence on earth is a test!

What the people wish to know is why are we being tested in the first place.

Because the Sustainer likes to grow a kind of "super-race".

There is a reason why the Sustainer uses the parable with seeds that are put into the soil for cultivation and then the best are to be saved. And the choking weeds are the worldly temptations themselves.

QuoteQuran (7:20 and/or 20:120) says otherwise!

In a sectarian interpretation, yes!

It rarely has any connection to reality but just some clergymen who sat down trying their best to make their doctrine fit into a context they did not really understand.

The real story is on collision course with that. The Sustainer made the new spirit, based on the Sustainer, enter into the body and as a test environment and told them to not to "know" the World, i.e. indulge in it. But the instinctive drive (what you call shaytaan) tempted them and they failed to uphold what the Sustainer said and indulged nevertheless. But the humans are born with this shaytaan in them and it is not a separate entity or person. Adam was exposed to a cycle of gehennom in the parable because of his sin (the body was renewed), but the original tale has been poorly interpreted by later generations and the original tale from the Genesis probably needs a reinterpretation too. And shaytaan was fabricated as a separate being while it was in the flesh itself. And know that the story of Genesis was a parable itself just like the Sustainer seems to have humor in making a parable of everything through the prophets.

That is why I have said that the body was made to deceive.

Each procreated soul from a father and a mother is a child soul just like Adam's soul was the child of the Sustainer. But, one has to separate the soul from the flesh, because the Sustainer is not the Father of the dead but of the living.

QuoteI beg to differ.

To me, the body is not a "trap," nor the "enemy"!

My body is a vehicle/apparatus (assigned to me, a "spermatozoid," to use) ...

You can use it as a tool to do the best of the situation, but you are yet trapped inside that vehicle and your primary goal is to be freed from it rather than the recurring Gehennom.

QuoteTo my knowledge, Quranic RB (رب) doesn't mean "sustainer" [nor "foundation"],
but: Master, Chief, or simply: Superior [from RBB ~ to be great, or significant].

Okay. I respect your opinion.

But the morphological meaning of Rabb is to supply something, permanently, unconditionally per the word's literal meaning. That is no one but the Sustainer can be Rabb since they do not fill the prerequisites and are themselves sustained. Rabb refers to the fact it upholds the world, visible or invisible. It could also be translated as 'Platform'. That also has etymological backup from ancient lexicons. And here you have English definitions for platform and sustain. It is important to realize that in the Semitic languages words are always spiritually descriptive in what is their meaning so Sustain-er is not very strange since the Rabb upholds the world. But it does not have any image of anything so one cannot really substantiate it and that is the danger.

plat‧form / ˈpl?tfɔrm / W3 noun [ countable ]

2 STRUCTURE              a tall structure built so that people can stand or work above the surrounding area :
5 SUPPORT              something that gives you the support, help, power etc. that you need to do something

sus‧tain / səˈsteɪn / Ac W3 verb

1 MAKE SOMETHING CONTINUE              formal [ transitive ]             
to make something continue over a period of time SYN maintain :
2 sustain damage/​injury/​defeat etc.              formal              to be damaged, hurt, defeated etc. :
3 FOOD/​WATER [ transitive ]              to provide enough food, water etc. for people to stay alive :
4 GIVE STRENGTH [ transitive ]              to make it possible for someone to stay strong or hopeful :
5 WEIGHT [ transitive ]              formal              to hold up the weight of something SYN support :

Source: Longman Advanced American Dictionary (with removed irrelevant definitions)

Be well
Website reference: [url="http://iamthatiam.boards.net"]http://iamthatiam.boards.net[/url]

Samira1234

Hey guys,

Just dropping in to give my own opinion. For one thing, from what I am seeing, people in general seem to have quite a limited idea about sex and sexual desires. A lot of people in particular tend to put sex under either lust, or under pleasure that can be used in any way one wants. Both are two extremes I think.

I agree that the sexual desire is something extremely powerful. And if channeled in a more inappropriate or un-wholesome fashion, can consume and make us suck into the labyrinth of the world and the temporary glitter associated with it, before we realize that we now feel empty and somewhat devoid of the God spirit within us, hence creating a cloudier connection with the Source.

But that doesn't mean the sexual desire is to be demonized, because if people channel the desire properly (something which I am still learning on, on how to), then it can be a wonderful experience, which can even accelerate our spiritual awakening, make us more in touch with our sense of humanity, and on our true inner instincts. And that too in a more pleasurable way lol. This is particularly so when it is with another human being, where both the partners have a deep sense of caring, understanding and love between them, and can somewhat put aside their emotional walls and resistance to the other, which makes the experience more wholesome. A number of couples practise tantric sex too (which I personally plan to explore with the right person in the future. I hope that wasn't a lot of information lol).

For some reason religious people seem to be averse to the idea of a lot of pleasure, because they immediately associate it with being "fleshly" instead of "from the spirit". I disagree that being from the spirit can mostly include normal or struggling experiences or something. This is immediately saying that with the very right person, God doesn't want you to explore with them and fully enjoy the experience of sex and being in touch with one's sense of humanity.

I do think though that since the matter of sexual desires is a heavy topic, it needs to be broached carefully and with some degree of precautions to people. Because this type of experience can either bring us up or shoot us down. This gift from God I believe with its pros, has its list of cons as well, which can be deadly if not paid good and cautious attention to.

If people find it good and beneficial to keep separate from it or control it while growing in the spirit, all the good for them, and I believe is a healthy route too, if kept under good control, because it's misuse can reflect in one's eyes at times too, and can be very distracting, especially if developing into some form of addiction or unhealthy behavior, or clouding one's connection with God in the heart and mind. If not, then such people need to find out how best to channel this desire in a safe, spiritual, and good way where possible. I don't think people who channel their desires in such a way are any less better than those who choose to abstain from the desires. Listing down one's do's and don't in this area, and what they are comfortable with and what not, is also something important.

Peace.
Inner space is as infinite as outer space.

Where there is life there is hope.

Religion is A box; Spirituality is a golden spiral.

Samira1234

Putting sex under the label of procreation, where one simply acts as a vehicle to release certain fluids in order to make procreation successful, is a very narrow way of seeing sex. If some people choose to be that way, thats okay for them. They should discuss this out with a potential partner beforehand though. I wonder if sex was really that way, why there has to be the pleasure factor attached to it, and even a solely pleasure organ for women (the clitoris) that is separate from the main sexual organ. And why people feel so in touch with their sense of humanity through it, and feels the bond with their partner solidifying through it as well then. So yeah, calling sex simply for procreation is stupid.

Not to mention a vast number of babies are born unplanned, which means there would be a lot less humans if we simply had "sex for procreation" without the pleasure factor lol. Although with the rising number of types of contraception, this number is getting lesser (but obviously not disappearing, because many people tend to also have sex for pleasure without contraception for some reason).

Peace.
Inner space is as infinite as outer space.

Where there is life there is hope.

Religion is A box; Spirituality is a golden spiral.

Samira1234

Sex is also a major reason why people choose to get married as well, besides the need for emotional connection, growing together in life purpose, and other host of benefits that marriage brings, whether the couple decides to have kids or not. Without sex for pleasure, marriage would become more like a societal institution that is necessary to keep the latter generations coming, or to increase family ties between two families, or whatever it may be. Which is why the pleasure and comfort concept that we associate when sexually close to another person is very important (whether it involves the act or not) and has a host of benefits to it. Also isn't sexual attraction the type of attraction that we associate with when we find a person of the other gender attractive enough for us to be with them?

Once again, if someone chooses celibacy, being single, or abstaining from sexual desires as preferred for them, whether for a time being or for a lifetime,. that is perfectly alright as well, and can be another path to living a life of fullness too.

Peace.
Inner space is as infinite as outer space.

Where there is life there is hope.

Religion is A box; Spirituality is a golden spiral.

reel

I am late, but watched the video. Its all true, but it does take time to learn it all. I must still say that sometimes the truth can be so hurtful that its better to stay away from it for the sake of sustaining life. Same of course can be spoken about the false. This world is a weird maze.
"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

Samira1234

Quote from: reel on July 02, 2015, 03:04:30 AM
I am late, but watched the video. Its all true, but it does take time to learn it all. I must still say that sometimes the truth can be so hurtful that its better to stay away from it for the sake of sustaining life. Same of course can be spoken about the false. This world is a weird maze.

I very much agree. We are frail human beings after all.
Inner space is as infinite as outer space.

Where there is life there is hope.

Religion is A box; Spirituality is a golden spiral.

Man of Faith

Hello Samira,

I am disappointed, but I accept your opinion.

You still miss the purpose why we are here and in these bodies. It is a deception and the only way to get out of the body instead of Gehennom is separation, "separation of the spirit from the flesh".

Nevertheless, sex with someone you have married is not forbidden, but manifestly being a primate is dangerous. To have a family and children is part of the "game", but we must guard ourselves every minute for the impulse of satan. The more careful and mindful you are the better. However, if it becomes a habit there is not very much distraction to live like Being (Allah) and you will feel very powerful (because the "Door" opens), and eventually you will be a ruler as well and free of your awkward body, but you perhaps revere it?

We are not here to enjoy the world, even if entertainment is not forbidden and I have even seen the Sustainer have more humor than in the sectarian interpretation of Quran. It is a little like schizophrenia, where you have a conflict between two personalities; the spirit that is an image of the Sustainer and the body which is made from energy and is highly deceptive because it is basically a primate. The body clouds the spirit when it takes precedence and this is what a person must fight to prevent. If you tried the life I am propagating you would see.

Be well
Website reference: [url="http://iamthatiam.boards.net"]http://iamthatiam.boards.net[/url]