It seems that true believers are a tiny minority!

[drfazl]

peace drfazl,

"- to reach the heaven first - endless journey thereafter"

first time i hear, to reach the heaven first and thereafter endless journey i.e nearing God is endless in nature which means we never can near God even though He is near to us. our journey is endless in nearness eternity which should start in this world itself; the first step is qualify to entering heaven with the help of God.  now i understand why God talks of heaven / hell in quran the guidance to reach heaven with His help and to avoid hell with His protection.

all praises to my God, the Lord of the eternity.
peace.

May Allah bless us all for the clarity and wisdom.

[FreedomStands]

peace drfazl,

"- to reach the heaven first - endless journey thereafter"
i have discussed with 'some people' who reject going to heaven instead going to the nearness (inner ring) of God directly (just like the council of ministers for a king - they mean then there is no birth to them) thereby they believe their position becomes endless / eternity.  according to them even if they go to heaven or hell they will again take birth which they do not like.  they do not want to take births; those births include plant forms, animal forms, etc., this make them more love for animals and plants than men; they equate men with all creations of God; they reject heaven / hell.  hence, they strive (rituals) to reach God direct? these people say, "all is by God, we are only his tools, good or bad is done by god"

first time i hear, to reach the heaven first and thereafter endless journey i.e nearing God is endless in nature which means we never can near God even though He is near to us. our journey is endless in nearness eternity which should start in this world itself; the first step is qualify to entering heaven with the help of God.  now i understand why God talks of heaven / hell in quran the guidance to reach heaven with His help and to avoid hell with His protection.

all praises to my God, the Lord of the eternity.

peace.

So whats the hell for?

[FreedomStands]

Freedom,
I agree with you that everything is from God, But I do not agree with predestination. I hope you too have the same idea.

I like the Quranic verse and other ancient thoughts about God's creation and manifestation are in pairs.
Heaven and hell are also part of this creation except Him who is alone, Naturally its the amalgamation of those pairs that becomes ONE.

Might want to check out the wikipedia page on Valentinianism.

[FreedomStands]

Freedom,
I agree with you that everything is from God, But I do not agree with predestination. I hope you too have the same idea.

I like the Quranic verse and other ancient thoughts about God's creation and manifestation are in pairs.
Heaven and hell are also part of this creation except Him who is alone, Naturally its the amalgamation of those pairs that becomes ONE.

Its very hard for me to explain to people that I've never talked about "pre-destination" because then they assume they know what I mean by that, when they usually don't know what I mean by saying I  never talked about "pre-destination".

[FreedomStands]

peace,

'Godhood' according to quran is opted by who are cursed.  how can someone following quran wish for 'Godhood'.  quran never talks of believing 'Godhood'.

peace

We know that.

[FreedomStands]

Salam brother Amin.

If believing in predestination is too burdensome on your soul, feel free to believe as you like to. Believing matters little, it is faith that really matters. But do remember to make the best use of your "free will" to earn the destiny which you prefer. Perhaps our Master has chosen you among those whom He guides to the straight route.

Regards,
Arman

Exactly, perfect answer!

[FreedomStands]

Salam Amin.

There are many verses of Qur?an which imply predestination. Take for example the followings:

Our beliefs are not but a set of assumptions that we like to adhere to make sense of what we perceive. You may believe you have your free will encapsulated by Allah?s predestined will ? if that is the wording you use to rationalize the above, I have no problem with that. I personally believe whatever I will I do so because Allah wills. I am not but a mere reflection of Allah?s will. My life, my consciousness, my free will everything is a mere illusion created by my Master. I strive with my ?free will? and my sincere prayer to earn my destiny (which I believe my Master has already fixed for me), not to create it. Allah is the only truth, the only reality - there is nothing beyond Allah.

If someone can perfectly articulate free will and predestination but uses his understanding as an excuse to give up trying then he has a major problem with his ?faith?. Whatever understanding convinces you to give your 100% effort to strive for good with 100% reliance on Allah ? is a good understanding. So, let?s cut short debates on topic like this, let?s strive to earn our destiny.

May Allah guide us all to the straight route.

Regards,
Arman

Yeah, they accused me of that falsely, I never said that "don't strive" stuff people always try to falsely attribute when they hear about God's will. Anyway, perfect answer again.

[FreedomStands]

Allah creates every individual in best fashion from the womb bodily and mind wise, and He breathes His Ruh at birth that has the distinguishing ability. How much this perfection is destroyed by the man made intrusion into the womb, say through the scientific intervention by way instruments, scanners and medicines is anybody's knowledge. Almost all babies if they die, they die at the hands of the ill informed 'specialist' doctors and the shirki parents' arrogance against Allah when they take their children to the hospitals. I think this should answer you, if you think.

Allah harms Himself? Please answer how? Though it is your weird statement, I want to know how you arrived at such a thing.

It was you who said something vague so I was asking who you were referring to. Does the baby give itself a disease? Does man? Lets say the baby survives mutilated by the disease or disfigured, was this a man made thing?

[FreedomStands]

Don't you have your answer when you write a post? And when you use an ayat it is not for jesting; there is no point in just copy pasting and posting. When you reference an ayat give the meaning of it and then say how you use it to the presenting discussion with proper first-handed understanding of the ayat yourself, in the first place. You go to your posts and see -   how many ayats you playfully write and throw it in black and white. And before writing an ayat you can not write it without having the evidence of its meaning with you as witness, to what you write of an ayat. It is ignominious in the eyes of Allah to say an ayat without individual appreciation of it in his daily life of the person who writes. You are taking the ayats of Allah for fun and sport; nothing else.

What is information? What is creation? What is everything? What is Allah? I am sure you will not be able to say your confusion for a definition here. Define it clearly; If you cannot I will. I am waiting for you to become humble or stay true to your ambiguous claim you are informing here the existence of everything that you confuse and conjure up as creation.

Starting from Ayat 1: 6 and 7  to the end of the Sura 114 should answer you. God created life and the doctors kill the life; and any deformation in the baby that happens psychically, physiologically and physically is because of the shirki parents and the shirki couple who took their spouses and children to the doctors who believe it is the doctors who create and save the lives. You are unable to think properly because of the corrupted wisdom by the physical knowledge.

Read 10:107, 6:17 AND 6:42; 7:94 and come back here if you do not know the meanings or in your language if you had not had proper information. Let me teach you if you have some substance.

Read 3:28; 9;24 and 58:22. This is my answer to your friendship issue.
Read 6:17 and many more such ayats is answer to your children hospital issue and for your shirk.
If you cannot comprehend these ayats, at least try to read 6.42, and 6.43 and 6.44 you will know why all the shirki people suffer hell in the hospitals at the hands of their gods, the docs. Of course you will then inform me, 'Is it not nothingness i.e., Allah for you, who created hospitals? If you ask this question I will give you some more references from Quran.

They are experiencing harm, but if it is not intended, is it a slip up (2/10)? Then why is it that such afflictions are not removed or made to not exist (2/59, 86)? Who created them(2/90) and who is responsible for their activities (the existence of and the continued work (2/114) of these diseases)? I'd like to know the names of these other creators besides Allah.

You make lots of false accusations against me, but that isn't "ignominious" in the "eyes of Allah"? You really think I put those revelations for jest? They were meant to confirm my points.

"What is information? What is creation? What is everything? What is Allah? I am sure you will not be able to say your confusion for a definition here."

This is SPECIFICALLY what I have answered, you can go see it in the "truth" thread. I can link you again if you want, but maybe you know it.

Information is the term I use to refer to all creation/everything other than Allah, Allah is not information but what creates it. There is no confusion.

"God created life and the doctors kill the life"

Huh? Did doctors create the diseases that eat up plants and cause them to decay? God didn't create diseases? Do you think doctors did?

When did I say doctors create life? I'm not the one doing shirk, anyone who says Allah is not the creator of everything and that there are other creators of other things is a shirki by definition (not your made up idea, but the meaning of "sharing" the power of Allah which is to create, its mentioned throughout the Qur'an).

[DrGm]

So whats the hell for?

peace,

91:15 - he didn't fear the end

he who fear the end strive for heaven; he who do not fear the end is striving for hell.

peace