Author Topic: Kaaba Mecca and Jerusalem  (Read 8135 times)

Man of Faith

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Re: Kaaba Mecca and Jerusalem
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2014, 09:21:35 AM »
We want explanation for we are looking for a religion. This is why.

It is not rocket science what we must do, even if one can make it like that, but then it is also easy to lose oneself in confusion and conjecture.

Have faith
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hawk99

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Re: Kaaba Mecca and Jerusalem
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2014, 09:30:33 AM »
We want explanation for we are looking for a religion. This is why.


Peace Man of Faith,

Please clarify the above statement.


God bless you

   :peace:
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Samira1234

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Re: Kaaba Mecca and Jerusalem
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2014, 11:48:13 AM »
Peace Man of Faith,

Please clarify the above statement.


God bless you

   :peace:

His idea of a religion is more of a spiritual one than a physical one, which is having many physical rituals to abide by. And that if we follow the 10 Commandments of Moses and the teachings of Jesus only, we don't really need to abide by anything else, especially in the form of physical rituals. And that it is the Muslims' obsession to turning God into an 'objectified God' and form and trying to please this God like people would to a pagan God, as though it needs mechanical rituals to produce mechanical results to people, which created much of the downfall of the Muslims. And it is the adherence of the Western world to the spiritual values and teachings of Jesus and abandoning much of the other parts of religion which caused the Western world to prosper.

Peace,

Samira
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hawk99

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Re: Kaaba Mecca and Jerusalem
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2014, 12:06:14 PM »
His idea of a religion is more of a spiritual one than a physical one, which is having many physical rituals to abide by. And that if we follow the 10 Commandments of Moses and the teachings of Jesus only, we don't really need to abide by anything else, especially in the form of physical rituals. And that it is the Muslims' obsession to turning God into an 'objectified God' and form and trying to please this God like people would to a pagan God, as though it needs mechanical rituals to produce mechanical results to people, which created much of the downfall of the Muslims. And it is the adherence of the Western world to the spiritual values and teachings of Jesus and abandoning much of the other parts of religion which caused the Western world to prosper.


Peace Samira,

So in your version of Islam there is no ablution (ritual)?

No Ramadan (ritual)?

No Salat (ritual)?

No hajj (ritual)?

God Bless you

   :peace:
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Samira1234

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Re: Kaaba Mecca and Jerusalem
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2014, 12:23:27 PM »
@hawk99

According to Man of Faith, we need to abide by the 10 commandments of Moses and the teachings of Jesus, such as in the New Testament. He says there is no ablution, Salah, and Hajj. Not sure about Ramadan though. He has a wholly different way of interpreting the Quranic scripture though from others, which could be seen as radically different. Anyway, his point is, Muhammad didn't really come with a "new" message to people, but rather repeat the same message as did the previous Prophets like Moses and Jesus. It is people who could not interpret the Quran properly, and ended up adding paganistic rituals. And the Kaaba is one paganistic structure, the Cube of Saturn apparently.

You still need to verify them yourself. Particularly the Salah part. Man of Faith says God is more looking at a person's spirit, how much they assimilate themselves with their inner divine, and how much they reduce their ego self, rather than outward rituals to "bride" God, which God has no real use for. Anyway, that is Man of Faith's interpretation.

Peace,

Samira
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Where there is life there is hope.

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reel

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Re: Kaaba Mecca and Jerusalem
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2014, 02:02:22 PM »
Quote
That may well be, but I hope you realise the seemingly small but important point I am making, which was: "...the Quran verses you are likely alluding to are referring to "bayt" or "al bayt al muharam" which may or may not be the same as "kaabah". Also, Quran never mentions him building anything in "Makkah", only "Bakkah" (not kaabah though) which only has weak evidence suggesting "Bakkah" is the same as "Makkah"."
Quote
The cuboid called Kaabah that is in Mecca today has no Quranic evidence for it. The evidence is based on secondary sources, mixed with Quran interpolations, assumptions etc. Albeit it is the common view, but common is not equivalent to evidenced.

For my view:
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.html
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.html[/quote]

Quote
Those passages do not mention any physical house. The word used does not mean house but assembly. It is ignorant people who interpreted it in the beginning. It is supposed to say Abraham laid the foundation of the first assembly, and prayed for the land to be a one of affinity.

I saw the word bayt in the verse. I will have to do additional research to come to a proper conclusion.  This is all I have right now.



I also have to read the entire Hajj Surah.  To my knowledge, Bakkah is Makkah. Scholars are the ones who for some reason think Kabbah is Bakkah. Quran rejects it and confirms Bakkah to be a city/town/location but not a house.

The first Sanctuary established for the people is the one in Bakk'a, blessed, and a guidance for the worlds.3:96
"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

Wakas

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Re: Kaaba Mecca and Jerusalem
« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2019, 03:31:04 AM »
In addition to my previous post: https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607054.msg359847#msg359847

Some may find this work useful. There was some interesting bits, e.g.

Quote:
The Arabs who inhabited the Peninsula used to offer their hair as a sacrifice to Manāt. Interestingly, having made a pilgrimage to Al-Kaba in Mecca, the goddess’ followers believed that the hajj ritual could be deemed complete only after they also visited the goddess’ sanctuary in Kudayd. Manāt’s name, just like that of Al-Lāt and Al-‘Uzzā, was invoked during the oath taking ceremonies. The three goddesses were also worshipped in the  Kuraysh’s Mecca. According to many scholars, in the pre-Muslim era the famous Al-Kaba served as the all-Arab cult centre of Al-Lāt, Al-‘Uzzā and Manāt, all of whom were later recognized as daughters of the supreme god: Hubal and then Allāh, whom the  Arabs were to equate with Hubal.


###
Coincidentally there are 3 pillars inside the cuboid called Kaabah. I don't know if this is related.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

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quincy

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Re: Kaaba Mecca and Jerusalem
« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2019, 11:48:49 PM »
What is more interesting is that small altar. Whats its function?

5:90    O you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and altars, and arrows of chance are made foul by the work of the devil. You shall avoid him so that you may be successful.

Another thing is that i expected the cuboid to have 4 corners but there are 6 as if it was made purposely. Then we have those jars hanging - i think there is much more symbolism then we might think. And it can only have pagan origins.


Wakas

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Re: Kaaba Mecca and Jerusalem
« Reply #38 on: October 30, 2020, 09:43:55 AM »
In addition to my previous posts: https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607054.msg427188#msg427188

From:
https://www.almuslih.org/Library/Peterson,%20S%20-%20The%20Cult%20of%20Dushara.pdf

Quote:

This is also done in the city of Petra (this is the capital of Arabia, which is called
Edom in the scriptures), in the temple of the idol there. They sing hymns to the
virgin in Arabia, calling her in Arabic "Chaabu," which means Core or "virgin,"
and the one born from her "Dusares,"
which means "only begotten of the Lord."
The rite is also performed in the city of Elusa on that night as in Petra and

In this passage Epiphanius elucidates the rituals of the Nabataeans with the intent of
showing that the Nabataeans understood the concept of a virgin birth, like the
Christians.273 In his explanation, he names the main deity of the Nabataeans as Dushara,
but is incorrect in his explanation of Dushara's origins. According to Epiphanius,
Dushara is worshipped as the son of a virgin, which raises questions as to the
role of Ruda, if female, or Allat in relation to the deity? In fact, it appears that
Epiphanius confused the Arabic word ka 'ba, which means "stone, cube, betyl," with
words such as ka'iba or ku 'ba, which mean "young females" or "female breasts."
Because of this confusion, Epiphanius concluded that Dushara was born from a virgin,
misinterpreting Dushara's actual worship in the form of a stone
. Aside from the
etymylogical confusion, Epiphanius does indicate a festival of the Nabataeans that
occurred on the sixth of January, around the winter solstice.


All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org