:: What to believe? ::

[mmkhan]

Salamun Alaikum.

Per my humble understanding of Qur'an, having faith in Allah and in last day and acting righteously are the necessary and sufficient conditions for salvation (2:62, 2:82 etc.).

Also, per my understanding, having faith in Allah - does not mean believing in a deity named Allah - rather it means having faith in the One who gave us the gift of life - i.e. uphold our inviolable obligation to act responsibly with our life.

Also, per my understanding, having faith in Last Day - does not mean believing in a day when everyone would be gathered together - rather it means having faith that we WILL BE held accountable for our actions one way or the other.

The belief in messengers, holy books and angels come as part of the millat (religion) - and they are necessry conditions to make a person pious (al-birr) [ref 2:177]. Thus, piety is a quality - which helps an individual to remain righteous (salehin). Being righteous is the goal - being pious is the straight route leading towards that goal.

May Allah guide us all to the straight route.

Regards,
Arman

Peace brother,

I totally agree with you on red highlighted part above. But I am sorry to say that I disagree with the blue highlighted part from your post. 2:177 does not say to believe in all. If you look at the pattern like

2:177
لَّيْسَ الْبِرَّ أَن تُوَلُّوا وُجُوهَكُمْ قِبَلَ الْمَشْرِقِ وَالْمَغْرِبِ وَلَـٰكِنَّ الْبِرَّ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللَّـهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ وَالْمَلَائِكَةِ وَالْكِتَابِ وَالنَّبِيِّينَ وَآتَى الْمَالَ عَلَىٰ حُبِّهِ ذَوِي الْقُرْبَىٰ وَالْيَتَامَىٰ وَالْمَسَاكِينَ وَابْنَ السَّبِيلِ وَالسَّائِلِينَ وَفِي الرِّقَابِ وَأَقَامَ الصَّلَاةَ وَآتَى الزَّكَاةَ وَالْمُوفُونَ بِعَهْدِهِمْ إِذَا عَاهَدُوا ۖ وَالصَّابِرِينَ فِي الْبَأْسَاءِ وَالضَّرَّاءِ وَحِينَ الْبَأْسِ ۗ أُولَـٰئِكَ الَّذِينَ صَدَقُوا ۖ وَأُولَـٰئِكَ هُمُ الْمُتَّقُونَ

If you note there is "Bi" before the word Allah بِاللَّـهِ, this BI is missing in all other words highlighted in blue. So, it is not a continuation. And to look further on "wa aata almaala" should also needs to believe as per your understanding. It is not necessary to practice, but just believing will do? This is how Allah clarifies His aayaat.


May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path
mmKhan

[mmkhan]

Peace mmkhan.

Sorry, I see a lot of issues with the choices you have given:

1-  I cannot believe in "all" of them even if I wanted to. Simply because GOD said He did not tell us about some "messengers". We can only believe in the ones we are told about?

2- How can I believe in "Allah Alone" if it was not for His words/creations/signs...? I have to believe His words first/creations/signs..., that is what leads one to believe in Allah?

3- N/A is ambiguous. What does it mean? Everything is related for a true believer ,Allah, His words,His messengers, His Angels...

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Peace brother,

Those are the tools used by Allah to help us reach Him alone. Once we know our destination, why we need them for now? I see a big problem in believing and giving some importance to them, which don't allow me to run towards Allah alone. These things create hurdles for me in the path of Allah alone. I know that most of us disagree with it. But I am sharing my personal experience. And really Allah mean when He said that in Ibrahim an excellent example for us? Why only Ibrahim? Just think about it. Hope you get what I am trying to say, inshaAllah.


May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path
mmKhan

[mmkhan]

n/a is not ambiguous. It refers to that you do not find belief important in that aspect. I gave the third one with specification.

Regarding one with Allah alone is fully possible. I was realizing that Allah existed before I discovered about Quran and it did not bring me anything new that I did not already know. I believe in good.

Peace bro,

Exactly! Allah guides us directly in our hearts. If I say about myself, my eimaan or believe on Allah is so poor that I need other supports like prophets, messengers, books, etc. to make my believe on Allah alone stronger. Without their help I could not able to find the way towards Allah alone unlike Ibrahim.


May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path
mmKhan

[hawk99]

Peace,

I have some questions, basically it is a single question.

1- Do we need to believe in all messengers and prophets? Why?
2- Do we need to believe in all books of Allah? Why?
3- Do we need to believe in malaaika? Why?

The basic question is why we need to believe anyone or anything when we believe in Allah. Believing in Allah alone is not enough? After all there will be only Allah [judge] and any ONE of us in standing in front of Him alone [to be judged]. So, where they all come in picture? I don't see any reason in believing the above mentioned beside Allah.


May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path
mmKhan

Peace,  I like these questions much better than "just a thought"   

1.  Yes, they all bought the same message.

2.  Yes, all Books are a continuation of the guidance, together they all comprise one book.

3.  Yes, we believe in the unseen.

   God bless you

         

[DrGm]

Peace bro,

What when their job is over? Like a postman who delivers the message, we do not need him anymore but the message.
I agree with you totally on the red highlighted part above. Everything is a tool, yes just a tool to guide us to Allah alone. So, we much see what they all want from us. When they guide us to Allah alone, then what does we need them for now? Hope you get my point inshaAllah.

Anything or anybody that we hold between us and Allah makes our path more difficult towards Allah alone, so we lack being a hanifa.


May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path
mmKhan

peace,

What when their job is over?

the messengers (humans and malaaikas) job will never get over till the end of this world; for a believing individual till his last breath. 

Like a postman who delivers the message, we do not need him anymore but the message.

bro, now you are delivered by the 'message'.  with the 'message' in hand can you say you are solely Allah alone.  if you say "No".

If I say about myself, my eimaan or believe on Allah is so poor that I need other supports like prophets, messengers, books, etc. to make my believe on Allah alone stronger.

then, it is because we do not know how to follow the message.  only the messengers who live by the book can make us understand the message and make us live the message.

this process will lead us to get the communication direct from malaaikas and direct from Allah knowingly.  unknowingly few do get communication from malaaikas and Allah.  normally these few, think that the communication is their own knowledge.  they do not know they will get direct communication from Allah and malaaikas.  it is because they do not know the malaaikas and Allah for they do not know neither their messengers nor the message.  they only know they have a book or books without knowing how to use it for their life.  instead many take it for only arguments.

Everything is a tool, yes just a tool to guide us to Allah alone. So, we much see what they all want from us. When they guide us to Allah alone, then what does we need them for now?

they want us to live by the message given by Allah direct.  they guide us to know how Allah communicate to us.  till then we are blind, deaf.  if we are deaf and blind we need them now.

Anything or anybody that we hold between us and Allah makes our path more difficult towards Allah alone,

you are right, but it is not anything or anybody;  they are our messengers, they show the path that is easy only to the believers.

our case is:  in the first place whether we have belief to start with.   our position is we pray for belief first.  every time, when we are short of belief we need one to guide us to believe Allah alone for each and every part of our life.

bro, pl take this in right spirit, i have nothing against you or anyone.

peace

[Man of Faith]

Harmony mmkhan,

Please check the above post. And remember Ibrahim in the book, he was not having any book, any messenger or anyone to guide him towards Allah.

I am fully aware that he had no book, messenger or whatever, but he came forth to the same conclusion as one should because we are all united under the same prerequisites. I do not need any book either, but I got Qur'an which I decipher nowadays simply to convince others how erroneously interpreted it is. No rituals, no hocus pocus and pretty straight be good, behave and do good deeds. Nothing fancy. That is coming along in the spirit of Ibrahim.

And once realized this one takes one step further and soon you will be tested further on other levels and eventually if someone is very good they may even have correspondence with Allah is some way, usually abstract inspiration of sorts. Ibrahim passed this further testing which is clear in Qur'an.

A good man needs no physical book, since there are nothing to learn, but the only reason may be to feel heart-warming due to the sensation that what you read is a "signal" from Allah.

This is the reason he got the title of "wa maa kaana min almushrikeena" he never became among them who does shirk.

Yes brother, I am myself like that.

So, as per my understanding leaving everything or everyone and focus towards Allah alone may help us to reach these titles, inshaAllah.

Yes absolutely. I thought you knew me. However, I find that you ought to use your brain regardless although this brain and spirit should be in Allah.

Be of one in Allah

[good logic]

Peace mmkhan.

Of course I get what you are trying to say. However accepting GODs scriptures, messengers... does not mean idolising them.

I agree GOD Alone is the only authority and source and should be the only focus.

By the way brother, I look up to the sky when I implore my Creator.( Do not worry Man Of Faith, I am not looking up for a grumpy ,angry being in the sky?!!!)

GOD bless you.
Peace.

[mmkhan]

Peace,  I like these questions much better than "just a thought"  

1.  Yes, they all bought the same message.

2.  Yes, all Books are a continuation of the guidance, together they all comprise one book.

3.  Yes, we believe in the unseen.

   God bless you

         

Peace bro,

Thanks, specially for the red part above 
BTW you didn't answer to "why" in my questions 


May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path
mmKhan

[mmkhan]

peace,
the messengers (humans and malaaikas) job will never get over till the end of this world; for a believing individual till his last breath. 

bro, now you are delivered by the 'message'.  with the 'message' in hand can you say you are solely Allah alone.  if you say "No".  then, it is because we do not know how to follow the message.  only the messengers who live by the book can make us understand the message and make us live the message.

Peace bro,

Red: I am trying to say "YES" instead. But need to some time to understand it better, inshaAllah.

this process will lead us to get the communication direct from malaaikas and direct from Allah knowingly.  unknowingly few do get communication from malaaikas and Allah.  normally these few, think that the communication is their own knowledge.  they do not know they will get direct communication from Allah and malaaikas.  it is because they do not know the malaaikas and Allah for they do not know neither their messengers nor the message.  they only know they have a book or books without knowing how to use it for their life.  instead many take it for only arguments.

These red and blue highlighted parts bothered me a lot.

Red: What process? And why few? And why not all?
Blue: Why you always mixing malaaika with Allah? Allah never said in such a way. If you have any aayaat please share with us to study. But, Allah said as follows:

42:51
وَمَا كَانَ لِبَشَرٍ أَن يُكَلِّمَهُ اللَّـهُ إِلَّا وَحْيًا أَوْ مِن وَرَاءِ حِجَابٍ أَوْ يُرْسِلَ رَسُولًا فَيُوحِيَ بِإِذْنِهِ مَا يَشَاءُ ۚ إِنَّهُ عَلِيٌّ حَكِيمٌ
And it is not for any human being that Allah should communicate to him except by revelation or from behind a partition or that He sends a messenger to reveal, by His permission, what He wills. Indeed, He is Most High and Wise.

There is no malaaika included. Allah communicates with any human being. But I agree with you that unfortunately they don't realize it.

they want us to live by the message given by Allah direct.  they guide us to know how Allah communicate to us.  till then we are blind, deaf.  if we are deaf and blind we need them now.

Well, what, after we learn how Allah communicates with us? We still need them?

you are right, but it is not anything or anybody;  they are our messengers, they show the path that is easy only to the believers.

Instead of THEY what if we talk about US? After all we have to answer for OUR deeds not THEIR, right?

our case is:  in the first place whether we have belief to start with.   our position is we pray for belief first.  every time, when we are short of belief we need one to guide us to believe Allah alone for each and every part of our life.

bro, pl take this in right spirit, i have nothing against you or anyone.

peace

Of course, I took it in a positive way, we are just discussing the matter and sharing our understanding, no hard feelings at all, inshaAllah.


May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path
mmKhan

[mmkhan]

Harmony mmkhan,

I am fully aware that he had no book, messenger or whatever, but he came forth to the same conclusion as one should because we are all united under the same prerequisites. I do not need any book either, but I got Qur'an which I decipher nowadays simply to convince others how erroneously interpreted it is. No rituals, no hocus pocus and pretty straight be good, behave and do good deeds. Nothing fancy. That is coming along in the spirit of Ibrahim.

And once realized this one takes one step further and soon you will be tested further on other levels and eventually if someone is very good they may even have correspondence with Allah is some way, usually abstract inspiration of sorts. Ibrahim passed this further testing which is clear in Qur'an.

Peace bro,

I still very strongly believe that alQuraan is the book from Allah. No doubts in it.

Red: Would you please clarify what do you mean by "correspondence with Allah"?

A good man needs no physical book, since there are nothing to learn, but the only reason may be to feel heart-warming due to the sensation that what you read is a "signal" from Allah.

I feel that we all need physical book to show us the path of Allah alone. Once we understand it, then it is no more required. That is how I understand.

Like Musa got the book but it was only for bani Israel and not for himself 17:2 because he understood the path of Allah alone so no book is required.

Yes brother, I am myself like that.

Yes absolutely. I thought you knew me. However, I find that you ought to use your brain regardless although this brain and spirit should be in Allah.

Be of one in Allah

Thanks and I am happy to know about you, mashaAllah.


May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path
mmKhan