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Started by savage_carrot, July 31, 2014, 06:21:38 AM

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Bender

Quote from: savage_carrot on August 15, 2014, 09:20:56 PM
Um, think you may have meant your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see lol but I'll take your version over mine any day!

Salaam,

RED: that's the original quote but I did not understand it. Seriously it did not make any sense to me if we take literally what it says, but maybe it's an expression I do not know. I think my version makes more sense. 

QuoteBritish movie with some punjabi's lol. The lead is total eye candy, so hell yes I'd recommend it.
the lead is male or female?
and is it a girls movie or also ok for  :muscle: males like me?
Quote
I'm kinda lost as to the discussion at the moment, I usually need a translator for Mazhar bhai, but I'll make a stabby attempt to understand what's going on.

Bender said: I think it should be read something like this: if you ask about them after/while/during the Qur'an has been sent down, it will be cleared for you the pardoning of Allah for them.
Mazhar disagreed with it and contested the one fell swoop aspect.
Bender said: I understand now that " حِينَ " means something like: at the moment. Not "after" and also not "while".
Mazhar thinks same difference.
Bender says no, there is a difference.
Mazhar says no way.

I think I may just have gotten the gist of it...maybe.

lol, nice summary.

Quotei would tend to agree...I think.
good!!! Agree till you find something to falsify it or till you find something better.

Salaam,
Bender

Alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-alameen

savage_carrot

QuoteRED: that's the original quote but I did not understand it. Seriously it did not make any sense to me if we take literally what it says, but maybe it's an expression I do not know. I think my version makes more sense. 
I'll try to explain, if someone says "your hands can't hit what my eyes can't see"...it's like you can't see what you're doing and thus they can't hit. If you say "your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see"...it's like the other party can't hit what they can't see. The latter is correct for the motivations of that quote and I suppose generally as well. Your version would mean that because you can't see, they won't be able to hit, which maketh no senseth unless you've got some special psychic powers that can cause the other party to unsee what you cannot see. Or because you're so fast you can't see what you're doing and believe the other party thus won't be able to as well...which has an inherent flaw in it mainly that of: you don't know what the other party can see or not.
Quotethe lead is male or female?
and is it a girls movie or also ok for  :muscle: males like me?
Two leads, was talking about the male :P...we saw it in the cinema with a group of guys and girls when it came out, everyone liked it. Some stuff in it is more relevant to second generation desis, but overall it was a fun movie.
QuoteI am not sure if I understood exactly what you meant, maybe we mean the same but with different words.

For me "At the moment it rains" (=1) and "While it rains" (=2) are different expressions with a clear difference.
The starting point of action of 1 begins exactly at the same time the first raindrop falls.
The starting point of action of 2 can begin at every moment, not necessary at the first drop.
The second difference is that in 1 the rain can stop BUT it's not necessary that the action that started at the moment it began to rain also stops.
BUT for 2, the action can never occur outside the rain period.

Anyway this is how I understand the differene between "While" and "At the moment" but maybe I am confusing "While" with "During".
Savage please help me out here, you are the language purist here.
Hey, not a language purist by any stretch lol...While carries a meaning of during but used in a different way, that of two things happening at the same time e.g. While this conversation is taking place, I'm going to get myself a coke vs there can be no breaks during this conversation. At the moment carries a meaning of it being time based confined to the context of whatever that is: I find this conversation very confusing at the moment.

Here we have two languages, english and arabic if I may be allowed a capt obvious moment. The arabic word to word says "if you ask about it when is being revealed the quran it would be made clear to you"... off the top, it could fit while, it could fit during, but at the moment would be a tad more difficult for us to understand because we think it is an ongoing process of something else during which or while it's happening is when you can ask about it. This ongoing process of the revelation is what throws us off in a way. I mean we could say you can ask about it while it is raining. During the rain, you can ask about it. At the moment it rains you can ask about it...would mean we can start asking as soon as the first raindrop falls. In your view, we can start asking about it from that point onwards since we have permission to with no end date mentioned or inherent. I actually find that very interesting because the other ways we could take it would mean the window has closed. Unless of course we take the meaning of the revelation being a continuous process.
God has a plan, Gaius. He has a plan for everything and everyone.

Mazhar

QuoteI actually find that very interesting because the other ways we could take it would mean the window has closed. Unless of course we take the meaning of the revelation being a continuous process.


The issue was about asking questions of a certain import.

What was certain import: Such questions, answers of which might be disturbing for the raiser of the question.

Warning: If asked during the period of revelation of Qur'aan, even such questions will be asnswered. People warned that it can be risky for them.

Qur'aan is completed. Now window of asking questions through the Messenger is closed. Now one has to find answers for himself in the Book or in the universe, if he has certain questions in his mind. Both windows are open, only the Messenger is not there who could bring answers instantly as did Musa alahissalam about questions raised by his nation, see cow episode.

O those/you who proclaim to have accepted-become believers, listen;
You should not ask seeking answers about such matters, which if disclosed for you, it would be embarrassing or troublesome for you people.
Take note, if you ask about such matters during the ongoing intermittent revelation of Qur'aan, it would be disclosed for you. Allah the Exalted has overlooked such matters.
Be cognizant, Allah the Exalted is eternally imperturbably over looking-forgiver [of unintentional faults/wrong doings] [5:101]
[url="http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm"]http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm[/url]

huruf

May be the Qur'an is being revealed all the time, to all people.

As we can readily see, not all people understand the Qur'an in the same depth, or the same amount or the same aspects. Also a single person through life may change her understanding all the way, gain perception and insight. It is nto static, so we might think that besides having descended in a worded form at a given time, now it keeps descending for each person at her own measure in depth, extension, and quality. So may be we will not ask of the Prophet, but we will ask from the Qur'an as it is being revealed to each of us.

Salaam

Bender

Quote from: savage_carrot on August 18, 2014, 09:13:15 AM
I'll try to explain, if someone says "your hands can't hit what my eyes can't see"...it's like you can't see what you're doing and thus they can't hit. If you say "your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see"...it's like the other party can't hit what they can't see. The latter is correct for the motivations of that quote and I suppose generally as well. Your version would mean that because you can't see, they won't be able to hit, which maketh no senseth unless you've got some special psychic powers that can cause the other party to unsee what you cannot see. Or because you're so fast you can't see what you're doing and believe the other party thus won't be able to as well...which has an inherent flaw in it mainly that of: you don't know what the other party can see or not.

Salaam,

RED: aaah thx!!! I get it now.

If I translate my version into Dutch it means: It is impossible for you (=Savage) to hit something without me (=Bender) noticing it. And that made perfectly sense to me.
So how would you write what I meant, using the words "hands" and "eyes" in 1 sentence.

QuoteTwo leads, was talking about the male :P...we saw it in the cinema with a group of guys and girls when it came out, everyone liked it. Some stuff in it is more relevant to second generation desis, but overall it was a fun movie.
ok thx, it's on my to see list.

QuoteHey, not a language purist by any stretch lol...While carries a meaning of during but used in a different way, that of two things happening at the same time e.g. While this conversation is taking place, I'm going to get myself a coke vs there can be no breaks during this conversation. At the moment carries a meaning of it being time based confined to the context of whatever that is: I find this conversation very confusing at the moment.
thx!!!

QuoteHere we have two languages, english and arabic if I may be allowed a capt obvious moment. The arabic word to word says "if you ask about it when is being revealed the quran it would be made clear to you"... off the top, it could fit while, it could fit during, but at the moment would be a tad more difficult for us to understand because we think it is an ongoing process of something else during which or while it's happening is when you can ask about it. This ongoing process of the revelation is what throws us off in a way. I mean we could say you can ask about it while it is raining. During the rain, you can ask about it. At the moment it rains you can ask about it...would mean we can start asking as soon as the first raindrop falls. In your view, we can start asking about it from that point onwards since we have permission to with no end date mentioned or inherent. I actually find that very interesting because the other ways we could take it would mean the window has closed. Unless of course we take the meaning of the revelation being a continuous process.

I think the difficulty is not in the word while/at the moment/during but the difficulty is that we have a wrong understanding what AlQuran means.

Salaam,
Bender
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-alameen

savage_carrot

QuoteRED: aaah thx!!! I get it now.
This is kinda anti-climatic compared to all those other times :angel:
QuoteIf I translate my version into Dutch it means: It is impossible for you (=Savage) to hit something without me (=Bender) noticing it. And that made perfectly sense to me.
So how would you write what I meant, using the words "hands" and "eyes" in 1 sentence.
Well, I'd write it like you just wrote it without hands and eyes and any catchy feel to it whatsoever but if I had to...: 'Your hands can't hit anything because my eyes can see everything' or something...?
QuoteI think the difficulty is not in the word while/at the moment/during but the difficulty is that we have a wrong understanding what AlQuran means.
I agree.
QuoteMay be the Qur'an is being revealed all the time, to all people.

As we can readily see, not all people understand the Qur'an in the same depth, or the same amount or the same aspects. Also a single person through life may change her understanding all the way, gain perception and insight. It is nto static, so we might think that besides having descended in a worded form at a given time, now it keeps descending for each person at her own measure in depth, extension, and quality. So may be we will not ask of the Prophet, but we will ask from the Qur'an as it is being revealed to each of us.

Salaam
Yes, I understand this to be true.
QuoteQur'aan is completed. Now window of asking questions through the Messenger is closed. Now one has to find answers for himself in the Book or in the universe, if he has certain questions in his mind. Both windows are open, only the Messenger is not there who could bring answers instantly as did Musa alahissalam about questions raised by his nation, see cow episode.
I understand your point of view.

peace
God has a plan, Gaius. He has a plan for everything and everyone.