So Who is to blame for the attrocities of Israel in 2014?

[357]

On the 'they should just move on' meme I have to ask, "To WHERE?"

Egypt is a poor option, even if the border crossing is opened once in a blue moon; the other option is to cross the border into Israel where they're likely to be shot on sight. Oh the third option is to go into the sea and let the ocean take them.

Let's say that every one of those living in Gaza were to hold up a white flag and say at once, "WE ARE LEAVING"- where would they go? Who would take them in? Is the US prepared to accept 1.8 million refugees? Would the beginning of a mass evacuation bring the Israeli assault to an abrupt halt? Do those living in the West Bank have the Strip turned over to them for clearing and rebuilding- or does Israel take possession of the territory (and, presumably, the oil fields off the coast which I suspect are part of the Israeli designs on Gaza all along)?

Sorry I didn't mean physically move, but "move on" so don't hold on to old grudges, start anew let bygones be bygones.

Annihilate vice towards one another.

The solution lies not in moving- the solution lies in stopping the animosity and the killing. All of it, on both sides. Then, and only then, can Muslim and Jew and Christian live together in peace in that part of the world. Will it happen in my lifetime? Sadly, I doubt it.

100%. true.

I think it can happen in your lifetime - provided the hate seekers can be tied up or something.

 

[huruf]

Salamun Alaikum.

I have absolutely no problem / issue against hamas killing the Israeli troops who attack Gaza - fight them and kill them - fight them till they surrender to you - you have my 100% backing.

What I do not support is their indiscriminate throwing of rockets in Israeli civilian areas - even though such rockets may be almost totally useless - it does not take away the fact that they are being thrown at civilians. I also do not support their refusal of ceasefire - when Israel proactively went into ceasefire. It clearly shows Hamas think they are gaining from the ongoing conflict - the death of the Palestinians.

It is ironic that someone here mentions the Jewish youths who fought the nazis in the Varsovia guetto.
I do consider Mordechai Anielewicz as one of the greatest icons in human history of - courage, heroism and fight against oppression. I don't believe there is any record of those Jewish youths attacking or encouraging attack on German civilian interests or attacking Christians indiscriminately. Till the last one of them was alive they fought the nazi soldiers who were far superior to them in military might. Their heroism during the second world war helped shape the global public opinion in favor of establishing the state of Israel after the war.

Perhaps the Hammas has a few things to learn from the story of Mordechai Anielewicz and his team.

May Allah guide us all to the straight route.

Regards,
Arman

How nice it is not to know and not to have to know.

How nice it is to be able to concentrate on the toy Hamas and discard anything else, because obviously the problem sin 1945 is Hamas and nothing but Hamas, it is not even who created Hamas... The important thing is that one sides with the spotless, and that the downtrodden have to be spotless. The others well you know, dogs bite...

The all important things in this question is Hamas, but Hamas, othere is a hama under my matress and as soon as that hamas under my matress goes away everything will be solved.

?Magic!


Salaam to all those who struggle for justice and truth.

[huruf]

?How dare Palestinians resist or exist if they not prove one hundred million times, one after another that they are spotless and that there is nothing even far away put in connection with them that is not spotless?

?
How dare they?

How dare anybody speak of anything else for as long as it is not one hunderd million times proved that palestinians are spotless?

The important thing is not that they may exist but that anything to do with them is spotless for those who judge them.

I hope everybody gets the same judgement they and the same procedure they emloy for Palestine.

It reminds of the woman fgiving birth and somebody pointing out her hairdo is a bit... well, not perfect.

She might not even deserve respect.



Of course, once there are no palestinians left, Palestine will be spotless and the only thing to do for the rest of the people might be to see for themsleves that they do not get the same treatment and have to start proving spotlessness 100 hours a day for the taste of those who might feel pity for them.

Salaam to those who struggle for justice and truth.

[JavaLatte]

Why you are comparing most of us with Hamas,

Because many of men have low guts to support justice by real actions at the location where the problem occur.

Men are the protectors of women and children, huh?

What kind of responsibility do you or we have?

 

If you want to know the answer, use your own conscience (or refresh your mind by pondering the question in red above).

The best thing for Individual innocent Palestinian is to move to safer place saving their lives and loved one's lives rather than living near a rogue evil power. Every land is holy as everything is created by the same God.

Note this:

I DO NOT CARE ABOUT PALESTINE BECOME HOLY LAND OR NOT.

I AM NOT A WORSHIPER OF THE HOLY LANDS.

This is not about the holy land...  This is about the mass murder which is underrated and ignored by many people.


If you rather run away and gladly to leave behind the poor and weak of your brothers and sisters who can't leave, fine then, go, run somewhere if someday your homeland under attack by greedy villains who feel the need of more vacant lands.

Don't you learn something from the story of Muhammad?

He left Mecca to Medina not because he wanted to stay happily forever in Medina, but he went there to make plan and strategy to come back to save Mecca and to save its weak citizens from oppression.

And learn also from the story of Moses, he went but he came back to save his people.

Personally i will take that decision.

Yes... yes... so perhaps you can personally beg for safety in foreign country where its leaders do not even regard God, and you can watch via TV when your homeland brothers and sisters are being massacred slowly, while you can think that they supposed to run away from their homeland like you.

I am glad that Indonesian ancestors did not be cowards and chose to stay in our lands and bravely fought the invaders.

Salām.



8:15
O you who believe! When you meet those (of) the opponents, advancing in great force, do not flee from them.

8:16
Whoever on that day flees from them - unless it is part of the battle strategy or in an endeavor to join another troop (of the believers) - then he has drawn God's wrath upon him, and his abode will be Hell. What a miserable destination.


Note: I use brother MoF's understanding for kafarū/k-f-r, I think it fits well for 8:15.

[amin]

Yes we need to protect our kids and women, not take them to the battle field?

[huruf]

Nobody is taking Palestinian women and children to the battle field the battle field is coming to them, courtesy of the Israel "civilian" army.

Because many of men have low guts to support justice by real actions at the location where the problem occur.

Men are the protectors of women and children, huh?


 

If you want to know the answer, use your own conscience (or refresh your mind by pondering the question in red above).


Note this:

I DO NOT CARE ABOUT PALESTINE BECOME HOLY LAND OR NOT.

I AM NOT A WORSHIPER OF THE HOLY LANDS.

This is not about the holy land...  This is about the mass murder which is underrated and ignored by many people.


If you rather run away and gladly to leave behind the poor and weak of your brothers and sisters who can't leave, fine then, go, run somewhere if someday your homeland under attack by greedy villains who feel the need of more vacant lands.

Don't you learn something from the story of Muhammad?

He left Mecca to Medina not because he wanted to stay happily forever in Medina, but he went there to make plan and strategy to come back to save Mecca and to save its weak citizens from oppression.

And learn also from the story of Moses, he went but he came back to save his people.


Yes... yes... so perhaps you can personally beg for safety in foreign country where its leaders do not even regard God, and you can watch via TV when your homeland brothers and sisters are being massacred slowly, while you can think that they supposed to run away from their homeland like you.

I am glad that Indonesian ancestors did not be cowards and chose to stay in our lands and bravely fought the invaders.

Salām.



8:15
O you who believe! When you meet those (of) the opponents, advancing in great force, do not flee from them.

8:16
Whoever on that day flees from them - unless it is part of the battle strategy or in an endeavor to join another troop (of the believers) - then he has drawn God's wrath upon him, and his abode will be Hell. What a miserable destination.


Note: I use brother MoF's understanding for kafarū/k-f-r, I think it fits well for 8:15.

Yes, it seems that sensibilities can be very selective. The pea-hamas under the mattress are far more violent that the atomic bombs dropped on millions on people.

Having hospitals, schools and geriatrics as bombing targets I suppose does not deserve a blink from well meaning "non violent", but the little peas, the little peas, those are really really and abolute condemnation for the whole Palestinian people who have the 1000% duty of being spotless, real virgins even after being raped, -less figuratevely, blanket bombed- consistently and persistently.

But of course they deserve nothing else since there is that awful pea-hamas under the mattress.

Salaam

[JavaLatte]

Yes we need to protect our kids and women, not take them to the battle field?

Who told you to take your women and kids to the battle field? 

Do you want to twist the facts?

Facts:  There are already women and kids in Gaza now. Do you care about them?

As a man(?), whether you have guts to take the women and children to get out of Gaza?

Bring the women and children to the secure places, meanwhile the men can focus on battle.

Do you have guts keep stay in Gaza to fight the Israeli troops?

If the men can secure Gaza and kick out the Israeli troops, then they can bring back the women and children to live in Gaza again.

Yes we need to protect our kids and women, not take them to the battle field?

Nobody is taking Palestinian women and children to the battle field the battle field is coming to them

[JavaLatte]

Yes, it seems that sensibilities can be very selective. The pea-hamas under the mattress are far more violent that the atomic bombs dropped on millions on people.

Yes, perhaps some people cannot distinguish between the pea and the atomic bombs.

And it is easier to crush the pea, rather than to crush the atomic bombs.


Salām.

[357]

Nobody is taking Palestinian women and children to the battle field the battle field is coming to them, courtesy of the Israel "civilian" army.

Is the battlefield coming of its own accord , or is it being brought by the actions of Hamas?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=hamas+firing+rockets+into+israel+utube&qpvt=hamas+firing+rockets+into+israel+utube&FORM=VDRE

You running for cover whenever a rocket is sent from Gaza - how stupid the people sending them, its asking for trouble, i think they are too bent on the belief in the destruction of Israel i think even free-minds has a topic on it.

it is sad that it is the very people being attacked who voted for Hamas.

Is the west bank being attacked aswell???

[runninglikezebras]

I strongly condemn anyone picturing this conflict as a battle between two equal forces or even a war.  It is not.  Was the violence between Nazis and jews in the Warsaw ghetto during world war 2 a conflict with both sides in the wrong?  Is Israel not an occupying force?  How is this any different?

What Israel is doing is called murder.  It's not war.  Is Israel not an occupying force? A war implies two forces with an organized military.  Palestine does not even have an organized military. 

To quote Noam Chomsky on this topic:

"The incursion and bombardment of Gaza is not about destroying Hamas. It is not about stopping rocket fire into Israel, it is not about achieving peace.

The Israeli decision to rain death and destruction on Gaza, to use lethal weapons of the modern battlefield on a largely defenseless civilian population, is the final phase in a decades-long campaign to ethnically-cleanse Palestinians.

Israel uses sophisticated attack jets and naval vessels to bomb densely-crowded refugee camps, schools, apartment blocks, mosques, and slums to attack a population that has no air force, no air defense, no navy, no heavy weapons, no artillery units, no mechanized armor, no command in control, no army? and calls it a war. It is not a war, it is murder.

When Israelis in the occupied territories now claim that they have to defend themselves, they are defending themselves in the sense that any military occupier has to defend itself against the population they are crushing. You can?t defend yourself when you?re militarily occupying someone else?s land. That?s not defense. Call it what you like, it?s not defense.?