Author Topic: A challenge to those who claim Quran states 5 salat daily  (Read 32193 times)

Scribbler

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Re: A challenge to those who claim Quran states 5 salat daily
« Reply #50 on: January 12, 2014, 07:27:51 AM »
Peace Wakas;

FIVE PRAYERS A DAY AND THEIR TIME :
I believe this is where God gave us the times for the Salat  in the Quran :

The Dawn salat (Fajr in Arabic) given in 11:114, 24:58
The Noon salat (Zuher in Arabic) , given in 17:78 and 30:18
The Afternoon salat ( or middle ) (Asr in Arabic), given in 2:238
The sunset salt (Maghrib in Arabic), given in 11:114
The Night salat (Isha in Arabic), given in 24:58

Note: These are time periods ( not names  as some wrongly assume!!)of salat.
 
Peace to you

Salam Alaykum, brother.


Thanks for the post. After pondering for a while, I have start to think that the five timings are indeed mentioned in the Quran, but without specific names as many assume it should be, for example salat-ul-fajr and salat-ul-isha. If one looks for names, then there is no way he/she could ever come up to the conclusion of it being five times a day.


Regards.
Turn to Allah before you turn to ashes.

Wakas

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Re: A challenge to those who claim Quran states 5 salat daily
« Reply #51 on: January 12, 2014, 07:56:19 AM »
peace Scribbler,

In my humble view, I can't seem to reject brother Joseph's understanding of the timings, and neither can I outright reject your arguments, and honestly speaking, anyone of you could be right. I have noted that brother Joseph justifies the five timings with an understanding which is 'indirect', and you seem to be looking for explicit mention of the five timings. I think it is best if we can establish the salat five times a day as opposed to two times, since the more you do it, the better it will be for one's soul, no? But depending on our ability and current circumstances, I would conclude that we should do it at least two times a day, and a maximum of five times a day.

Firstly, it is not just about the explicit mention of the five timings, that is only one aspect.

Whilst I may agree that it is difficult to select one view over another sometimes, in this case it is very easy to determine which option causes the most unanswered questions, issues/problems/inconsistencies/etc. With regard to this, the view of a minimum of 2 salat daily for the mumineen, is by far, the least problematic, in my view. I recommend readers to simply make a list of issues for each option, e.g. 5 salat daily, 3 salat daily, 2 salat daily, no salat daily etc.

See which one is the most sound and go with that. Continue to increase one's knowledge etc.


Re: more salat the better
I do not see the regular/timed salat for the mumineen as a ritual prayer as I briefly discuss in my article. But in any case, in general, in life there must be balance between knowledge or spirituality - and application or good deeds.
So I do not necessarily agree more salat the better, but that does not mean more is wrong. If one is getting the balance right, then that is up to them.


All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Wakas

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Re: A challenge to those who claim Quran states 5 salat daily
« Reply #52 on: January 12, 2014, 08:06:20 AM »
peace good logic,

I note you did not highlight how your view differs.

As I said, you cite the exact same verses as Mazhar and Joseph do, thus your view will run into the exact same issues as I have already mentioned.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Mazhar

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Re: A challenge to those who claim Quran states 5 salat daily
« Reply #53 on: January 12, 2014, 08:43:26 AM »
peace good logic,

I note you did not highlight how your view differs.

As I said, you cite the exact same verses as Mazhar and Joseph do, thus your view will run into the exact same issues as I have already mentioned.

Peace Wakas,

The response to Reply 2 and 3 is still awaited which were the clarifications about your "objections" on this thread:

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605766.msg336182#msg336182

Emphasis: Salat is prescribed with reference to time. Salat of each time has no specific name other than Salat. It has only relation with time.
 

Wakas

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Re: A challenge to those who claim Quran states 5 salat daily
« Reply #54 on: January 25, 2014, 02:51:27 AM »
Since it seems no-one else wants to participate.

For those that do, please provide the following information for each of the 5 alleged daily salat:

Name/reference for salat (with Quran references)
Time: start point (with Quran references)
Time: end point (with Quran references)



Please note, that if you have no name/reference, please state so.
If you have no start and/or end point for your timing, please state so.

Thanks.

I am actually writing an article on the 5 salat timings issue.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

GODsubmitter

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Re: A challenge to those who claim Quran states 5 salat daily
« Reply #55 on: January 25, 2014, 07:57:29 AM »
Since it seems no-one else wants to participate.

For those that do, please provide the following information for each of the 5 alleged daily salat:

Name/reference for salat (with Quran references)
Time: start point (with Quran references)
Time: end point (with Quran references)



Please note, that if you have no name/reference, please state so.
If you have no start and/or end point for your timing, please state so.

Thanks.

I am actually writing an article on the 5 salat timings issue.

excellent
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Mazhar

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Re: A challenge to those who claim Quran states 5 salat daily
« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2014, 08:25:50 AM »
Since it seems no-one else wants to participate.

For those that do, please provide the following information for each of the 5 alleged daily salat:

Name/reference for salat (with Quran references)
Time: start point (with Quran references)
Time: end point (with Quran references)



Please note, that if you have no name/reference, please state so.
If you have no start and/or end point for your timing, please state so.

Thanks.

I am actually writing an article on the 5 salat timings issue.


It is a time bound protocol. Number and the appointed timings for its performance during a day

Wakas

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Re: A challenge to those who claim Quran states 5 salat daily
« Reply #57 on: January 25, 2014, 10:08:56 AM »
Oh dear, the first reply and it's not in the requested format.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Wakas

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Re: A challenge to those who claim Quran states 5 salat daily
« Reply #58 on: February 09, 2014, 11:59:16 AM »
peace all,

I am actually writing an article on the 5 salat timings issue.

Since no-one accepted the challenge in the manner requested, I decided to write a detailed article so students of Quran can weigh and consider the information for themselves.

All feedback is welcome, especially corrections. Thanks.

The common problems with 5 salat daily timings as per The Quran

Click: http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.html
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Mazhar

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Re: A challenge to those who claim Quran states 5 salat daily
« Reply #59 on: February 10, 2014, 12:26:52 AM »
"the challenge in the manner requested" is in fact no challenge but is based on ignoring the first step of understanding a language and extracting meanings.

The first step is to determine the word as to which part of speech it relates and to identify the phrases.

صَلَاةِ الْفَجْرِ  and صَلَاةِ الْعِشَاءِ are possessive phrases.

Phrase: It is a string of words that form a constituent and so function as a single unit in the syntax of a sentence. A phrase is lower on the grammatical hierarchy than a clause. These are compounds, in Arabic الْمُرَكَّبَاتُ. When two or more words are joined they constitute a Phrase [مركب ناقص] or [مركب تام] a Sentence-جُمْلَةٌ.

In English, possessive words or phrases exist for nouns and most pronouns, as well as some noun phrases. These can play the roles of determiners (also called possessive adjectives when corresponding to a pronoun) or of nouns.

Possessive determiners constitute a sub-class of determiners which modify a noun by attributing possession (or other sense of belonging) to someone or something. They are also known as possessive adjectives.

In Arabic possessive phrase is called:

أَلإضَافَةُ ٱلْحَقِيقِيَّةُ
   [literally: annexation, addition, or attachment] Possessive/Relative Phrase-"the Construct"

Salat is time bound. Time is determined by the movement of the Sun. The above two words are NOT the names, but possessive phrases-single unit where the second noun with definite article is indicative of the point in time. Point in time does not mean duration.