Author Topic: Rashad Khalifa's Followers, Submitters or Deniers?  (Read 34340 times)


Bahman

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Re: SHAHADA?
« Reply #91 on: December 19, 2013, 12:06:28 AM »
The Most ImportantCommandment*[3:18] GOD bears witness that there is no god except He, and so do the angels and those who possess knowledge. Truthfully and equitably, He is the absolute god; there is no god but He, the Almighty, Most Wise.*3:18 The proclamation of faith (Shahaadah) that is decreed by God is: "There is no god except God," in Arabic "La Elaaha Ella Allah"(see also 37:35, 47:19). The corrupted Muslims insist upon adding a second "Shahaadah" proclaiming that Muhammad is God's messenger. This is by definition "Shirk" (idolatry) and a flagrant defiance of God and His messenger. Additionally, it violates the major commandments in 2:136, 2:285, 3:84, & 4:150-152 prohibiting any distinction among God's messengers. By proclaiming that "Muhammad is a messenger of God," and failing to make the same proclamation for other messengers such as Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Saleh, and Jonah, a distinction is committed and a major commandment is violated.  The First Commandment[37:35] When they were told, "L? El?ha Ella All?h [There is no other god beside GOD]," they turned arrogant.  



http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604669.msg313639#msg313639



muslims

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Re: Rashad Khalifa's Followers, Submitters or Deniers?
« Reply #92 on: December 19, 2013, 12:10:31 AM »

Since you cannot understand questions and are not discussing anything, so..

Why don't you copy the whole translations into this thread...

Here is the link... http://free-minds.org/quran/

If it is not enough.. you can also try the following links...  :peace:

http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/
http://www.openburhan.com/
http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp
http://www.quranexplorer.com/
http://www.clearquran.com/

Muslim Atheism is a theological position for the disbelief in god, religion and the unspecific
but the practical philosophy from the Quran are followed

Bahman

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muslims

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Re: Rashad Khalifa's Followers, Submitters or Deniers?
« Reply #94 on: December 19, 2013, 12:35:36 AM »

Perhaps you are interested to explain this... 3.81 and 33.7... ?  :laugh:

How does verses 3.81 and 33.7 is related to Rashad Khalifa?

Bahman r.a. ?

Rashad and his followers said...



3.81

Is not about Rashad Khalifa or allegation of his Messengership.




33.7

Is not about Rashad Khalifa or allegation of his Messengership.




33.40

Therefore Muhammad is the Messenger of Covenant, confirming all previous scriptures with the Quran (refer here)


              Muhammad is not the father of [any] one of your men


              but [he is] the Messenger of Allah

              (33:40)




CONTINUE HERE AND HERE

Muslim Atheism is a theological position for the disbelief in god, religion and the unspecific
but the practical philosophy from the Quran are followed

Bahman

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Re: Rashad Khalifa's Followers, Submitters or Deniers?
« Reply #95 on: December 19, 2013, 01:12:57 AM »
Perhaps you are interested to explain this... 3.81 and 33.7... ?  :laugh:
I have Burhan in my site on top left magnifying class (Search)

Is  God talking to prophet or reader ?
just simple  answer no detail which one ?


   And when/if God took the prophets' promise/covenant what/that what (E) I gave/brought you from a Book and wisdom , then a messenger came to you confirming to/for what (is) with you, to believe with him/it (E) and you will give him/it victory/aid (E). He said: "Did you confess/acknowledge and you took/received on that My promise ?" They said: "We confessed/acknowledged ." He said: "So witness/testify and I am with you from the witnessing/testifying/present."
Yusuf Ali   Behold! Allah took the covenant of the prophets, saying: "I give you a Book and Wisdom; then comes to you a messenger, confirming what is with you; do ye believe in him and render him help." Allah said: "Do ye agree, and take this my Covenant as binding on you?" They said: "We agree." He said: "Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses."
Pickthal   When Allah made (His) covenant with the prophets, (He said): Behold that which I have given you of the Scripture and knowledge. And afterward there will come unto you a messenger, confirming that which ye possess. Ye shall believe in him and ye shall help him. He said: Do ye agree, and will ye take up My burden (which I lay upon you) in this (matter)? They answered: We agree. He said: Then bear ye witness. I will be a witness with you.
Arberry    And when God took compact with the Prophets: 'That I have given you of Book and Wisdom; then there shall come to you a Messenger confirming what is with you -- you shall believe in him and you shall help him; do you agree?' He said. 'And do you take My load on you on that condition?' They said, 'We do agree.' God said, 'Bear witness so, and I shall be with you among the witnesses.'
Shakir   And when Allah made a covenant through the prophets: Certainly what I have given you of Book and wisdom-- then an messenger comes to you verifying that which is with you, you must believe in him, and you must aid him. He said: Do you affirm and accept My compact in this (matter)? They said: We do affirm. He said: Then bear witness, and I (too) am of the bearers of witness with you.
Sarwar   When God made a covenant with the Prophets, saying, "When I give you the Book and wisdom and a Messenger comes to you who will testify to the guidance which you have received from Me, you must believe in him and help him, then He asked them, "Do you affirm and accept my covenant?" They replied, "Yes, we affirm it." The Lord said, "Then bear witness to this and I shall bear witness with you"
H/K/Saheeh   And [recall, O People of the Scripture], when Allah took the covenant of the prophets, [saying], "Whatever I give you of the Scripture and wisdom and then there comes to you a messenger confirming what is with you, you [must] believe in him and support him." [Allah] said, "Have you acknowledged and taken upon that My commitment?" They said, "We have acknowledged it." He said, "Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses."
Malik   Allah took a covenant with the Prophets, saying: "Now that you have been given the Book and Wisdom; there will come to you a Messenger who will confirm that which is with you, you will have to believe in him and help him in his mission." Then He said "Do you affirm this covenant and agree to take this heavy responsibility?" The Prophets replied, "Yes, we do affirm." Allah said, "Very well, bear witness to this and I too bear witness with you."[81]
Maulana Ali**   And when Allah made a covenant through the prophets: Certainly what I have given you of Book and Wisdom -- then a Messenger comes to you verifying that which is with you, you shall believe in him, and you shall aid him. He said: Do you affirm and accept My compact in this (matter)? They said: We do affirm. He said: Then bear witness, and I (too) am of the bearers of witness with you.
Free Minds   And God took a covenant from the prophets: "For what I have given you of the Scripture and wisdom, then a messenger will come to you authenticating what is with you. You will believe in him and support him." He said: "Do you testify, and agree to this burden?", they said: "We testify." He said: "Then bear witness, and I am with you bearing witness."
Qaribullah   And when Allah took the covenant of the Prophets: 'That I have given you of the Book and Wisdom. Then there shall come to you a Messenger (Muhammad) confirming what is with you, you shall believe in him and you shall support him to be victorious, do you agree and take My load on this? ' They answered: 'We do agree. ' Allah said: 'Then bear witness, and I will be with you among the witnesses. '
George Sale   And remember when God accepted the covenant of the prophets, saying, this verily is the scripture and the wisdom which I have given you: Hereafter shall an Apostle come unto you, conforming the truth of that scripture which is with you; ye shall surely believe on Him, and ye shall assist Him. God said, are ye firmly resolved, and do ye accept my covenant on this condition? They answered, we are firmly resolved: God said, be ye therefore witnesses; and I also bear witness with you:
JM Rodwell   When God entered into covenant with the prophets, he said, "This is the Book and the Wisdom which I give you. Hereafter shall a prophet came unto you to confirm the Scriptures already with you. Ye shall surely believe on him, and ye shall surely aid him. A
Asad   AND, LO, God accepted, through the prophets, this solemn pledge [from the followers of earlier revelation]: "If, after all the revelation and the wisdom which I have vouchsafed unto you, there comes to you an apostle confirming the truth already in your possession, you must believe in him and succour him. Do you" - said He - "acknowledge and accept My bond on this condition?" They answered: "We do acknowledge it." Said He: "Then bear witness [thereto], and I shall be your witness.
Khalifa**   GOD took a covenant from the prophets, saying, "I will give you the scripture and wisdom. Afterwards, a messenger will come to confirm all existing scriptures. You shall believe in him and support him." He said, "Do you agree with this, and pledge to fulfill this covenant?" They said, "We agree." He said, "You have thus borne witness, and I bear witness along with you."
Hilali/Khan**   And (remember) when Allah took the Covenant of the Prophets, saying: "Take whatever I gave you from the Book and Hikmah (understanding of the Laws of Allah, etc.), and afterwards there will come to you a Messenger (Muhammad SAW) confirming what is with you; you must, then, believe in him and help him." Allah said: "Do you agree (to it) and will you take up My Covenant (which I conclude with you)?" They said: "We agree." He said: "Then bear witness; and I am with you among the witnesses (for this)."
QXP Shabbir Ahemd**   Allah made a Covenant with all the Prophets, and through them with their respective nations, that they would welcome each of the next Messengers in the process of Divine Revelations and support him. Allah said to the Prophets, "I give you the Scripture and Wisdom. Afterward there would come a Messenger who would confirm the Truth in your Scripture. You shall believe in him and help him." He said, "Do you agree and take this Covenant as binding on you?" They said, "We agree." He said, "Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses." (This was the Covenant with their nations. The personal covenant made with each Messenger is mentioned in (33:7))

muslims

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Re: Rashad Khalifa's Followers, Submitters or Deniers?
« Reply #96 on: December 19, 2013, 03:11:13 AM »

What makes you believe the verses are talking about Rashad Khalifa?

What words mentioned that it is RK?

and...

Are you going to totally deny the context of the story

and the reinstatement of the covenant at the end of the story in 33.15 and 3.86?   


3.81


The beginning of the story in 3.81....

Shakir   And when Allah made a covenant through the prophets: Certainly what I have given you of Book and wisdom-- then an messenger comes to you verifying that which is with you, you must believe in him, and you must aid him. He said: Do you affirm and accept My compact in this (matter)? They said: We do affirm. He said: Then bear witness, and I (too) am of the bearers of witness with you.

[....]

Maulana Ali**   And when Allah made a covenant through the prophets: Certainly what I have given you of Book and Wisdom -- then a Messenger comes to you verifying that which is with you, you shall believe in him, and you shall aid him. He said: Do you affirm and accept My compact in this (matter)? They said: We do affirm. He said: Then bear witness, and I (too) am of the bearers of witness with you.

the reinstament of the pledge in 3.81(FULL STORY)

3.86






33.7


The beginning of the story in 33.7




The reinstatement of the covenant in 33.7, and (FULL STORY)

33.15










*sigh* this people can't even read... or maybe I don't understand how they read the Quran, ie. without context!  :nope:

Muslim Atheism is a theological position for the disbelief in god, religion and the unspecific
but the practical philosophy from the Quran are followed

Bahman

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Re: Rashad Khalifa's Followers, Submitters or Deniers?
« Reply #97 on: December 19, 2013, 08:12:19 AM »
I have Burhan in my site on top left magnifying class (Search)

Is  God talking to prophet or reader ?
just simple  answer no detail which one ?


   And when/if God took the prophets' promise/covenant what/that what (E) I gave/brought you from a Book and wisdom , then a messenger came to you confirming to/for what (is) with you, to believe with him/it (E) and you will give him/it victory/aid (E). He said: "Did you confess/acknowledge and you took/received on that My promise ?" They said: "We confessed/acknowledged ." He said: "So witness/testify and I am with you from the witnessing/testifying/present."
Yusuf Ali   Behold! Allah took the covenant of the prophets, saying: "I give you a Book and Wisdom; then comes to you a messenger, confirming what is with you; do ye believe in him and render him help." Allah said: "Do ye agree, and take this my Covenant as binding on you?" They said: "We agree." He said: "Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses."
Pickthal   When Allah made (His) covenant with the prophets, (He said): Behold that which I have given you of the Scripture and knowledge. And afterward there will come unto you a messenger, confirming that which ye possess. Ye shall believe in him and ye shall help him. He said: Do ye agree, and will ye take up My burden (which I lay upon you) in this (matter)? They answered: We agree. He said: Then bear ye witness. I will be a witness with you.
Arberry    And when God took compact with the Prophets: 'That I have given you of Book and Wisdom; then there shall come to you a Messenger confirming what is with you -- you shall believe in him and you shall help him; do you agree?' He said. 'And do you take My load on you on that condition?' They said, 'We do agree.' God said, 'Bear witness so, and I shall be with you among the witnesses.'
Shakir   And when Allah made a covenant through the prophets: Certainly what I have given you of Book and wisdom-- then an messenger comes to you verifying that which is with you, you must believe in him, and you must aid him. He said: Do you affirm and accept My compact in this (matter)? They said: We do affirm. He said: Then bear witness, and I (too) am of the bearers of witness with you.
Sarwar   When God made a covenant with the Prophets, saying, "When I give you the Book and wisdom and a Messenger comes to you who will testify to the guidance which you have received from Me, you must believe in him and help him, then He asked them, "Do you affirm and accept my covenant?" They replied, "Yes, we affirm it." The Lord said, "Then bear witness to this and I shall bear witness with you"
H/K/Saheeh   And [recall, O People of the Scripture], when Allah took the covenant of the prophets, [saying], "Whatever I give you of the Scripture and wisdom and then there comes to you a messenger confirming what is with you, you [must] believe in him and support him." [Allah] said, "Have you acknowledged and taken upon that My commitment?" They said, "We have acknowledged it." He said, "Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses."
Malik   Allah took a covenant with the Prophets, saying: "Now that you have been given the Book and Wisdom; there will come to you a Messenger who will confirm that which is with you, you will have to believe in him and help him in his mission." Then He said "Do you affirm this covenant and agree to take this heavy responsibility?" The Prophets replied, "Yes, we do affirm." Allah said, "Very well, bear witness to this and I too bear witness with you."[81]
Maulana Ali**   And when Allah made a covenant through the prophets: Certainly what I have given you of Book and Wisdom -- then a Messenger comes to you verifying that which is with you, you shall believe in him, and you shall aid him. He said: Do you affirm and accept My compact in this (matter)? They said: We do affirm. He said: Then bear witness, and I (too) am of the bearers of witness with you.
Free Minds   And God took a covenant from the prophets: "For what I have given you of the Scripture and wisdom, then a messenger will come to you authenticating what is with you. You will believe in him and support him." He said: "Do you testify, and agree to this burden?", they said: "We testify." He said: "Then bear witness, and I am with you bearing witness."
Qaribullah   And when Allah took the covenant of the Prophets: 'That I have given you of the Book and Wisdom. Then there shall come to you a Messenger (Muhammad) confirming what is with you, you shall believe in him and you shall support him to be victorious, do you agree and take My load on this? ' They answered: 'We do agree. ' Allah said: 'Then bear witness, and I will be with you among the witnesses. '
George Sale   And remember when God accepted the covenant of the prophets, saying, this verily is the scripture and the wisdom which I have given you: Hereafter shall an Apostle come unto you, conforming the truth of that scripture which is with you; ye shall surely believe on Him, and ye shall assist Him. God said, are ye firmly resolved, and do ye accept my covenant on this condition? They answered, we are firmly resolved: God said, be ye therefore witnesses; and I also bear witness with you:
JM Rodwell   When God entered into covenant with the prophets, he said, "This is the Book and the Wisdom which I give you. Hereafter shall a prophet came unto you to confirm the Scriptures already with you. Ye shall surely believe on him, and ye shall surely aid him. A
Asad   AND, LO, God accepted, through the prophets, this solemn pledge [from the followers of earlier revelation]: "If, after all the revelation and the wisdom which I have vouchsafed unto you, there comes to you an apostle confirming the truth already in your possession, you must believe in him and succour him. Do you" - said He - "acknowledge and accept My bond on this condition?" They answered: "We do acknowledge it." Said He: "Then bear witness [thereto], and I shall be your witness.
Khalifa**   GOD took a covenant from the prophets, saying, "I will give you the scripture and wisdom. Afterwards, a messenger will come to confirm all existing scriptures. You shall believe in him and support him." He said, "Do you agree with this, and pledge to fulfill this covenant?" They said, "We agree." He said, "You have thus borne witness, and I bear witness along with you."
Hilali/Khan**   And (remember) when Allah took the Covenant of the Prophets, saying: "Take whatever I gave you from the Book and Hikmah (understanding of the Laws of Allah, etc.), and afterwards there will come to you a Messenger (Muhammad SAW) confirming what is with you; you must, then, believe in him and help him." Allah said: "Do you agree (to it) and will you take up My Covenant (which I conclude with you)?" They said: "We agree." He said: "Then bear witness; and I am with you among the witnesses (for this)."
QXP Shabbir Ahemd**   Allah made a Covenant with all the Prophets, and through them with their respective nations, that they would welcome each of the next Messengers in the process of Divine Revelations and support him. Allah said to the Prophets, "I give you the Scripture and Wisdom. Afterward there would come a Messenger who would confirm the Truth in your Scripture. You shall believe in him and help him." He said, "Do you agree and take this Covenant as binding on you?" They said, "We agree." He said, "Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses." (This was the Covenant with their nations. The personal covenant made with each Messenger is mentioned in (33:7))
I think i am wasting my time with you , You ask me to read and understand verses, so i am doing that, i posted many translations and asking you simple question which you can guide me to your opinion .
Is God authoring this verse for reader or prophet?
Why you ignore such sinple question, you answer then we discuss all vers and other verses too.
Are you ready to answer or wasting readers and my time too. :)

muslims

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Re: Rashad Khalifa's Followers, Submitters or Deniers?
« Reply #98 on: December 19, 2013, 09:06:41 AM »

Are you nuts? What readers?  and... out of nowhere it then suddenly refers to Rashad Khalifa... :rotfl:



God is taking covenants from the followers of the previous scriptures through each of their Prophet


What is the covenant?

It is the covenant to support and help one that will confirm their scriptures, ie. confirm with new books from Allah, the Quran!

The person referred in that verse is Muhammad, and the confirming Book is the Quran.
(which they then refused to help and support after finding out that Muhammad is an Arab! ..whereas all previous prophets are not Arabs)


Actual facts...


       And [mention] when Jesus
       the son of Mary, said
       "O children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah to you
       CONFIRMING what came before me of the Torah
       and bringing good tidings
       of a messenger to come after me
       whose name is Ahmad." <- not Rashad Khalifa, and absolutely not with any sign of sexual charges
       But when he came to them with clear evidences, they said
       "This is obvious magic"
       (61:6)


and further reference relating to the confirmation of previous scriptures through the Quran ....

                         
                         
               Rashad Khalifa Translation          
                         
               God took a covenant           
               from the prophets, saying          
               "I will give you the scripture and wisdom          
               Afterwards, a messenger will come          
               TO CONFIRM     <-     Must be confirmed by Book of Allah? Quran?
               all existing scriptures     <-     Referring to all existing scriptures before Muhammad?
               You shall believe in him           
               and support him."           
               He said, "Do you agree with this          
               and pledge to fulfill this covenant?"          
               They said, "We agree"          
               He said, "You have thus borne witness          
               and I bear witness along with you"          
               (3:81)          
                         
                         
                         
               The Confirmation          
                         
               Before this, the book of Moses provided guidance and mercy          
               This too is a scripture THAT CONFIRMS     <-     Already confirmed by the Quran
               in Arabic          It has been fulfilled 1,400 years ago
               to warn those who transgressed          There is no Messenger of Covenant after Muhammad
               and to give good news to the righteous          
               (46:12)          
                         
               Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully          
               CONFIRMING PREVIOUS SCRIPTURES     <-     Already confirmed by the Quran
               and superseding them          It has been fulfilled 1,400 years ago
               (5:48)          There is no Messenger of Covenant after Muhammad
                         
                         



More references...

       And believe in what I have sent down
       CONFIRMING
       that which is [already] with you
       and be not the first to disbelieve in it
       And do not exchange My signs for a small price
       and fear [only] Me
       (2:41)

       And when it is said to them
       "Believe in what Allah has revealed,"
       they say, "We believe [only] in what was revealed to us"
       And they disbelieve in what came after it
       while it is the truth CONFIRMING that which is with them
       Say, "Then why did you kill the prophets of Allah before
       if you are [indeed] believers?"
       (2:91)

       Say, "Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel
       it is [none but] he who has brought the Qur'an down upon your heart
       [O Muhammad], by permission of Allah
       CONFIRMING that which was before it
       and as guidance
       and good tidings for the believers"
       (2:97)

       He has sent down upon you, [O Muhammad]
       the Book in truth
       CONFIRMING what was before it
       And He revealed the Torah and the Gospel
       (3:3)

       And [I have come]
       CONFIRMING what was before me of the Torah
       and to make lawful for you
       some of what was forbidden to you
       And I have come to you
       with a sign from your Lord
       so fear Allah and obey me
       (3:50)

       O you who were given the Scripture
       believe in what We have sent down [to Muhammad]
       CONFIRMING that which is with you
       before We obliterate faces and turn them toward their backs
       or curse them as We cursed the sabbath-breakers
       And ever is the decree of Allah accomplished
       (4:47)

       And that which We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad]
       of the Book is the truth
       CONFIRMING what was before it
       Indeed, Allah , of His servants
       is Acquainted and Seeing
       (35:31)

       They said, "O our people
       indeed we have heard a [recited] Book revealed after Moses
       CONFIRMING what was before it
       which guides to the truth
       and to a straight path
       (46:30)

       And when there came to them a Book from Allah
       CONFIRMING that which was with them
       although before they used to pray for victory against those who disbelieved
       but [then] when there came to them
       that which they recognized
       they disbelieved in it
       so the curse of Allah will be upon the disbelievers
       (2:89)

       And when a messenger from Allah
       came to them CONFIRMING that which was with them
       a party of those who had been given the Scripture
       threw the Scripture of Allah behind their backs
       as if they did not know [what it contained]
       (2:101)

       And this is a Book which We have sent down
       blessed and CONFIRMING what was before it
       that you may warn the Mother of Cities and those around it
       Those who believe in the Hereafter believe in it
       and they are maintaining their prayers
       (6:92)

JESUS

       And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus, the son of Mary
       CONFIRMING that which came before him in the Torah
       and We gave him the Gospel
       in which was guidance and light
       and CONFIRMING that which preceded it of the Torah
       as guidance and instruction for the righteous
       (5:46)



The distortion....


Muslim Atheism is a theological position for the disbelief in god, religion and the unspecific
but the practical philosophy from the Quran are followed

Bahman

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Re: Rashad Khalifa's Followers, Submitters or Deniers?
« Reply #99 on: December 19, 2013, 09:21:48 AM »
Are you nuts? What readers?  and... out of nowhere it then suddenly refers to Rashad Khalifa... :rotfl:



God is taking covenants from the followers of the previous scriptures through each of their Prophet


What is the covenant?

It is the covenant to support and help one that will confirm their scriptures, ie. the Quran...

The person is referred in that verse is Muhammad, and the confirming Book is the Quran.
(which they then refused to help and support after finding out that Muhammad is an Arab!)
Thank you :)
please do not add anything to this discussion, let it be simple, all reader are not scholar and me too, i prefer simple language, we will go through all your claims one by one so you say

The person is referred in that verse is Muhammad, and the confirming Book is the Quran.
now choose your favour translation and post it here then i write more.