Author Topic: New article: What is the meaning of "al masjid al haram"?  (Read 50131 times)

almarh0m

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Re: New article: What is the meaning of "al masjid al haram"?
« Reply #330 on: July 19, 2019, 10:24:41 PM »

Salamun Alaikum

Al Masjid al Haram simply means The Law, which law you may ask? It could be the law/commandments/guidance of Allah and/or the law of the land where people resides. Why else are we told to turn our faces towards al Masjid al Haram wherever we are, if it is not the law? Since to literally turn your faces towards amah is a physical impossibility.

Peace
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Wakas

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Re: New article: What is the meaning of "al masjid al haram"?
« Reply #331 on: July 21, 2019, 03:57:52 PM »
peace almarh0m,

You have mentioned your "the law" theory before, and as I suggested to you then the article provides a checklist to run any understanding through to see if it fits, what issues arise (if any) etc.

It is unfortunate that even those who follow a Quran based islam will claim X but do not even do (what I consider to be) the basics to verify them, yet they keep on claiming X. This type of practice is rife amongst Traditionalists.

All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Mohammed.

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Re: New article: What is the meaning of "al masjid al haram"?
« Reply #332 on: July 27, 2019, 01:07:22 AM »
peace Wakas,

You are repeatedly saying physical direction is irrelevant. If you are saying it by referring 2:177, then, anyone can understand that 2:177 is talking in a manner that turning to a particular direction is not the important thing like what are listed there. Rather, the verse make sense that the practice of turning face to a particular direction was already there among believers (that’s why the Qur’an mentioned it !). And note that the Qur’an does not forbidding it, just saying it is not the important thing.

And as I understand, this having connection with the timed swalat because,
1) According to the Qur’an, there are two swalat in a day for the believers and the command to turn face towards AMAH comes two times (2:144&150). And there are 3 swalat for the prophet and the command to turn face comes 3 times for the prophet (2:144,149&150).
2) If a particular direction is not there for the timed swalat, confusion/dispute may arise which direction to face, especially when doing in group. Each individual may pleased /satisfied in different directions.

I think the saying in 2:177 is for those who struggle to maintain a direction for their timed swalat even in adverse situations. e.g.,
1)   In fright/war
2)   When isolated in an unfamiliar land or in the sea on a cloudy day (cannot see sun/moon/stars) so that no means to know directions.

My view is "makkah" simply means "crowding", and "al kaabah" simply means the base or the elevation and is specific to the locality wherein al hajj was held at the time. Think of it as a known area/landmark and such a boundary/demarcation is a logical necessity when hosting an event such as al hajj which has various regulations enacted in a specific locality.
Whatever is the meaning of makkah, alkaabah, alssafa, almarwa etc., nowhere the Qur’an mentions it in such a way that it can occur at multiple places.
Qur’an calls it albait alharam. I cannot see it just as a landmark/ demarcation thing that can happen anywhere in the world! It’s something beyond that, according to the Qur’anic descriptions.
It’s the place itself makes it sacred (e.g. Revelation of the Qur'an) and so is their boundary. (Sacredness by geography is possible, e.g. 20:12)
Also, why people have to come for Hajj from distant/remote areas?(22:27) Why they didn’t have their own makkah, alkaabah?

Another thing is that, in Hajj there is a practice of giving drink (9:19), which requires water, also water required for other basic needs, ablution etc. of thousands(if it’s like you said)/millions of people. Which means the place requires a source for this huge quantity of water throughout the year (Hajj /Umrah).
-my current understanding. Verify for yourself -17:36.
O you who believe! Enter perfectly in islam/ Surrender yourselves wholly unto God [2:208], [3:19-20,85 2:132]

Wakas

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Re: New article: What is the meaning of "al masjid al haram"?
« Reply #333 on: July 27, 2019, 05:18:49 PM »
peace,


Also, why people have to come for Hajj from distant/remote areas?(22:27) Why they didn’t have their own makkah, alkaabah?

Again, you are not using makkah and kaabah in the way I understand them but in any case, as I said in the quote you highlighted, al hajj held at the time was at a specific locality. The believers at the messenger's time simply used the blueprint of Abraham and what he did and implemented it wherever they were (i.e. in their locality). Likewise believers now can do this wherever they are, assuming they can implement the various stipulations in place.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Wakas

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Re: New article: What is the meaning of "al masjid al haram"?
« Reply #334 on: July 05, 2020, 12:41:01 PM »
The $100 USD challenge

http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.html

Quote
Conclusion of parts 1, 2, 3
The Quranic evidence weighs the evidence in favour of SJD meaning "to submit/honour/pay respect", "masjid" meaning "time of SJD", "al masjid al haram" meaning "the inviolable time of SJD" (i.e. the term referring to the time-period/event of the inviolable months). This understanding provides a logical, coherent and practical answer throughout, and helps answer some of the most difficult questions in Quran exegesis (e.g. 17:1-8, 17:60, 48:27, 2:142-150).

If you can find an article (written in English) that can provide a Quran-based answer that explains the above highlighted verses please share it here. If I think the attempt is reasonable you will be rewarded with $100. Or you may opt for it to be donated to a charity of your choosing. Proof of donation will be provided in that case.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

good logic

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Re: New article: What is the meaning of "al masjid al haram"?
« Reply #335 on: July 05, 2020, 03:42:15 PM »
Peace Wakas.

Can I ask the following question about what you say here,quote:
" If I think the attempt is reasonable you will..."

Question:- How are you going to determine that the answers are"reasonable" unless you know for sure the "reasonable" answers?

Because to me, the word "I think" implies that you may have an idea/s but you may not do the answers justice unless your idea/s are "reasonable"/unbiased and true.
But I may be wrong. Please clarify.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

Wakas

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Re: New article: What is the meaning of "al masjid al haram"?
« Reply #336 on: July 06, 2020, 01:28:41 AM »
peace GL,
Good question but the answer is quite simple and it's been available for years. I have referred to my methodology multiple times:
http://www.quran434.com/study-method.html

If you want it even simpler, the article would have to take into account the following:
Quranic grammar, Quranic cross-reference, non-contradictory, logical, practical application, self-contained explanation.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

good logic

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Re: New article: What is the meaning of "al masjid al haram"?
« Reply #337 on: July 06, 2020, 01:38:02 PM »
Thank you for clarifying Wakas.
In my experience ,this sounds straightforward, quote:
"Quranic grammar, Quranic cross-reference, non-contradictory, logical, practical application, self-contained explanation."

But with Qoran the majority aof the verses are notthat straightforwards.
Let me give an example:
12:42:
وَقالَ لِلَّذى ظَنَّ أَنَّهُ ناجٍ مِنهُمَا اذكُرنى عِندَ رَبِّكَ فَأَنسىٰهُ الشَّيطٰنُ ذِكرَ رَبِّهِ فَلَبِثَ فِى السِّجنِ بِضعَ سِنينَ
He then said to the one to be saved "Remember me at your lord."* Thus, Satan caused him to forget Dhikra his Lord, and, consequently, he remained in prison a few more years.

Does the word فَأَنسىٰهُ   refers toJoseph or his friend the prisoner,? The Arabic grammar here is not straightforward
i.e wich one of them forgot "Dhikra Rabbihi".?
 But I get your general point.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/