Author Topic: Jumma prayer  (Read 2289 times)

Mikhail Matin

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Jumma prayer
« on: August 31, 2012, 05:38:36 AM »
How can I perform the Jumma prayer if the person leading the prayer and everybody else prays differently from me?

NOMAD

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Re: Jumma prayer
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2012, 04:38:05 PM »
Salaam

Jumma is not for worship. instead is a congregation or reunion of the comunity to increase theire union, solve theire spiritual questions, to get information and wisdom by interchange of ideas and recitation of Quran. and After that you should remember Allah werever you go.

 :peace:
(2:26) Allah is not shy to strike a parable whatsoever a gnat or larger. Those who believe know that it is the truth from their Lord. As for those who disbelieve they ask: 'What could Allah mean by this parable? By it, Allah misleads many and guides many. ' But He misleads none except the evildoers

Mikhail Matin

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Re: Jumma prayer
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2012, 07:12:20 PM »
Dear NOMAD, I appreciate your reply and your opinion but I do not find you are not answering my question:

The Friday prayer

Which prayer is the subject of 62:9:

The prayer spoken of in 62:9-10 is given special importance as it is a collective prayer, and an analysis of the content of these verses confirms that it is not an additional prayer, but the Middle (wusta) prayer on Friday. If it were an additional salat, apart from the three Salat authorised in the Quran (Fajr-Wusta-Isha), God would have given it a name just like God gave names for all the authorised salat. Here we must remember God’s confirmation that the Quran has all the details (6:114) and that nothing has been left out of the book (6:38).
To analyse this matter we look at the words in 62:9:

“O you who believe, when the call for prayer is sounded on Friday, you shall hasten to commemorate God”

A key observation in the above words is that God did not say when the call is announced for the “Friday prayer”. God only said the “call for prayer” on Friday, this is a deliberate choice of words which tells us that it is not an additional salat to the other three, but one of those three. If God had said “the Friday prayer” then this would mean there is an additional salat called the “Friday prayer” (additional to the other 3 salat).
So which of the three salat is the subject of 62:9?
The words in 62:9 and 62:10 confirm that the salat spoken of is the the Wusta salat (on Friday) and not the other two (Fajr or Isha). The full words in these 2 verses say:

62:9 O you who believe, when the call to prayer is sounded on the day of “jummah” (Friday), you shall hasten to the commemoration of God, and drop all business: this is for your own good, if you only knew.

62:10 And when the prayer is ended, you shall spread out throughout the land to seek God’s bounties; and remember God frequently so you may succeed.

The words 'drop all business' and also the words 'when the prayer is ended, you shall spread out through the land to seek God's bounties' indicate that this prayer is in the day hours. The reasoning is as follows:

- Since no one is likely to be engaged in their business to have to drop it in the early hours before sunrise, this indicates that this prayer is not the Fajr prayer.

- Similarly it cannot be the Isha (Night) prayer since God says that after the prayer the believers may continue with their business. The Isha prayer ends when all light has disappeared from the sky. This is normally the time when people have ended their daily work and are ending their day at home, so this would not be a time when people would be resuming work.
It follows that if this Salat is not the Fajr prayer nor the Esha prayer, it can only be the Salat Al-Wusta.

Does the Quran state that it is a collective prayer?

It has also been inquired if this prayer should be observed collectively? Some have rightly indicated that the word “collectively” is not found in these verses. This may be true, however we have three indications in 62:9 which all confirm that the salat spoken of must be observed collectively.
Before we look at these, let us fist read 62:9:
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"O you who believe, when the call for prayer is announced on the day of Jummah (friday), you shall hasten to the commemoration of God, and drop all business. This is better for you, if you only knew."62:9
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1- The Arabic word “Jummaah” literally means congregation. The day of Friday, which was given this name, means the day of congregation..

2- We also read in this verse about a call for the prayer on that day. A public call is naturally addressed to all people. This, together with the first three words in the verse which address "all who believe", also confirm that the call is for a collective prayer..

3- We also read in 62:10 the following words:

"Once the prayer is completed, you shall "intashiru" (spread out) through the land to seek God's bounties, and continue to remember God frequently, that you may succeed."62:10
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The key word here is "intashiru" which means spread out or disperse.
It is not possible to spread out if the starting point is each person on his/her own. The concept of spreading out can only make sense if the starting point is a group. This again confirms that the salat must be observed collectively.

good logic

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Re: Jumma prayer
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2012, 11:25:21 PM »
Peace Mikhail Matin.

I also asked that same question.

Let me give you the following points first:

Should we go to any " traditional islamic( sunni,..etc) Masjid"? I found from Qoran the answer to be " No".

What did the early believers do? Muhammed started on his own, then the congregation of believers followed.

Are you with other believers to form a group?  Is there a "God Alone" Masjid somewhere near?

 If not,Trust in God to find the answer for you. Keep being patient, the most important thing is to Stay loyal to GOD Alone.

Peace.


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tlihawa

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Re: Jumma prayer
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2012, 11:53:44 PM »
Salam mikhail,
here is my opinion about Yaumil Jumuah. I copied the entire message so you can get the big picture.

Peace,
I've been search for literal translation of salla, but still cannot find the right word to explain what salla is.
So I just try to grab the meaning of salat by reading the following verses:

75:31 falā saddaqa walā sallā
75:32 walākin kadhaba watawallā

75:31   For he did not believe nor salla
75:32   But he denied and turned away.


So the saddaqa is the opposite of kadhaba, and salla is the opposite of turned away. So the word represent the salla here is straightaway or commitment.

But sometimes I found in Quran the word of Salla means to straightaway of something or commitment on something, depend on the context of verses.

Here is the examples:

4:89   They hope that you will reject as they have rejected, then you will be the same. Do not take any of them as allies until they emigrate in the cause of God. If they turn away, then take them and kill them wherever you find them; and do not take from them any ally or supporter.
4:90   Except for those who reach a people with whom you have a covenant, or if they come to you with a reluctance in their chests to fight you or to fight their own people. Had God willed He would have given them strength and they would have fought you. But if they retire from you, and do not fight you, and they offer you peace; then God does not make for you a path against them.


The verses above talking about war against the Rejecter and also covenant of peace with the Rejecter. Starting from here, we will talk about the commitment (Salla) of the covenant of peace.

and let see the next verses:

4:101   And if you go forth in the land, then there is no harm that you taqsurū mina l-salati, if you fear that the rejecters will try you. The rejecters are to you a clear enemy.
4:102   And if you are with them (the rejecters) and you lead salata for them, then let a group from among them stand with you and let them bring their weapons; and when they have sajadū then let them be behind you; and let a group who has not yet yusallu come and falyusallu with you, and let them be wary and let them bring their weapons with them. The rejecters hope that you would neglect your weapons and goods so they can come upon you in one blow. There is no sin upon you if you are impeded by rainfall, or if you are ill, that you place down your weapons. And be wary. God has prepared for the rejecters a humiliating retribution.


I let the word solaa untranslated so we can see how it works.

let's analyze the first untranslated words: taqsuru minalsalati.

taqsuru come from triliteral root qaf-sad-ra means shortened, ceased, restrained, palace, fortress.

In this context, which the salaa means commitment regarding the covenant of peace, so the best word to describe taqsuru is restrained or ceased.

4:101   And if you go forth in the land, then there is no harm that you restrained the commitment (of peace), if you fear that the rejecters will try you. The rejecters are to you a clear enemy.

and the next verse will be:

4:102   And if you are with them (the rejecters) and you lead the commitment (of peace) for them, then let a group from among them stand with you and let them bring their weapons; and when they have /agreed/consented/submissive (sajadū) then let them be behind you; and let a group who has not yet committed come and committed with you, and let them be wary and let them bring their weapons with them. The rejecters hope that you would neglect your weapons and goods so they can come upon you in one blow. There is no sin upon you if you are impeded by rainfall, or if you are ill, that you place down your weapons. And be wary. God has prepared for the rejecters a humiliating retribution.

So the Salla here is about comitment to covenant of peace. In 4:101, the prophet has been warned to restrained his commitment (of peace). In case another Rejecter (who didn't commit to the covenant of peace) will strike back, along the journey to the place of meeting, and during the meeting. The restrained commitment is meant to be wary, since the prophet could not 100% sure about the rejecter position.

and the next verse:

4:103   Then, if you have completed commitment (restrained one), remember God while standing, or sitting, or on your sides. Then, if you are secure, hold the commitment (full commitment). Indeed, the commitment for the believers is a Book that is scheduled.

another example is about commitment on trading.

the prerequisites here is to understand that :

Yaumil Jumuah/Gathering Day (62:9) = Yawmil Jam'i/Gathering Day (64:9) = Yaumul Taghabuni/Day of mutual gain and loss (in the context of trade) (64:9) = Yaumil Qiyamati/the Day of assembly (45:26) = Yaumun la bay'un/ No trading day (2:254).

So the Yaumil Jumuah (gathering day) must be understood that it is not Friday or the sixth day in a week, but it's the day which hasn't come yet, and will be coming someday and also known as the day of ressurection.

Now let's get into the verse:

62:9   yāayyuhā alladhīnaāmanū idhā nūdiya lilssalati min yawmil-jumuati fa-is'aw ilā dhik'ri l-lahi wadharū l-bay'a dhālikum khayrun lakum in kuntum ta'lamūna
62:9   O you who believe, when the call is made for the commitment of the day of gathering, then you shall hasten towards the remembrance of God, and cease all trading. This is better for you, if only you knew.


Beware that the verse has used the word min before the yaumil jumuah to prevent the meaning "at the day". So it should be "of the day".

There are three things in the verse:

- Commitment to the yaumil jumuah
- Get back to the dhikr'i (N) or remambrance of God
- Cease all trading

So context here is about trading. How to perform trading according to the dhikri (remembrance of god/Al Quran). As you can see in 62:9 and 64:9, that Yawmil Jumuah in 62:9 has the same word with the Yawmil Jam'i in 64:9. And in 64:9 you can find that Yawmil Jam'i also known as Yawmun Taghabuni, or The Day mutual gain or loss or cheat in trading, the same thing you can find in 2:254, Yaumun la bay'un.

64:9   The Day when He will gather you; the Day of Gathering; that is the Day of mutual gain and loss. And whoever believes in God and does good works, He will forgive his sins, and will admit him into estates with rivers flowing beneath them, abiding therein eternally. Such is the great triumph.


What we can find that Salaa in 62:9 means commitment to prepare ourself before the day of gathering (also known as no trading day) has come. So we must understand how to trade correctly according to the Al Quran.

Why we need to cease the trading then?

It's caused by one of basic principles of trading is not easy to understand for some people as shown in the following verse:

2:275   Those who consume usury (riba) do not rise except as one being influenced by the touch of the devil. That is because they have said: "Trade is the same as usury (riba)." While God has made trade lawful, and He has made usury unlawful. Whoever has received understanding from His Lord and ceases, then he will be forgiven for what was before this and his case will be with God. But whoever returns, then they are the people of the Fire, in it they will abide.


So the believer must stop for a while to understand how the trading works, how the trading different than usury.

And if the commitment has been made and the concept has been fully understood, the believer can continue to the business.

62:10   Then, once the commitment is completed, you shall disperse through the land and seek the provisions of God, and remember God frequently that you may succeed.

Others basic principles of trading could be find in 2:188, 2:282, 17:35, and 24:37.

So that's all my opinion about Salaa.

Peace




Mikhail Matin

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Re: Jumma prayer
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2012, 03:19:03 AM »
Salam Good Logic,

Yes, Ive not been going to Jumma since the day I started questioning my Sunni Islam faith. I am now trying to follow what God want of me and not what men want of me. To cut the story short, I am now looked upon as somebody who is defiant of my own religion by my peers. There are no "God alone" mosque here for me to perform my Jumma prayer with people who have the same belief as me.

Salam tlihawa,

very interesting read...... but seems really hard to digest... all those verses are actually talking about trading and not worship or prayer?
I really appreciate your reply  and will surely look into it much much deeper =)

NOMAD

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Re: Jumma prayer
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2012, 04:31:23 AM »
Salaam


Depend if you see Salat as prayer or Divine Laws.

Salaam
(2:26) Allah is not shy to strike a parable whatsoever a gnat or larger. Those who believe know that it is the truth from their Lord. As for those who disbelieve they ask: 'What could Allah mean by this parable? By it, Allah misleads many and guides many. ' But He misleads none except the evildoers

tlihawa

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Re: Jumma prayer
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2012, 11:24:46 PM »

Salam tlihawa,

very interesting read...... but seems really hard to digest... all those verses are actually talking about trading and not worship or prayer?
I really appreciate your reply  and will surely look into it much much deeper =)

Salam Mikahil,
sorry for late response.
About your question, yes they are. As you can see on my previous explanation that Solla means commitment on something, regarding the context of the verses. In 62:9, the context is trading, and in 4:101-103, the context is covenant of piece.

Here is another example:

Peace Dawn,
Wudu, it’s all about hygiene. As you can see in Quran, there are so many verses talking about ablution both physically and mentally..
In verse 8:11, God has sent down the water from the sky to cleanse us, and He has explained how to do it in 5:6.

8:11 Sleep overcame you to give you tranquility from Him; and He sent down to you water from the sky to cleanse you with it and cause the affliction of the devil to leave you; and so that He may strengthen your hearts and set firm your feet.

5:6 O you who believe, if you rise to commit (on hygiene), then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you have had intercourse, then you shall bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or you have excreted feces, or you have had sexual contact with the women, and you cannot not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and your hands with it. God does not want to place any hardship on you, but He wants to cleanse you and to complete His blessings upon you that you may be thankful.

Allah wants to cleanse the believer, both physically and mentally. And Verse 5:6 confirming physical ablution.
Some people think that ablution is precondition of Salaa. I think the ablution (physically and mentally) itself is Salaa (commitment on hygiene).

Now let's jump into alcohol thing.

4:43  O you who believe, do not make commitment while you are intoxicated, until you know what you are saying.

Most of commitment made according to the books dealing with other people, such as covenant, marriage, trading, etc. When you made commitment, you have to know for sure what you are saying. Too much alcohol makes you get drunk, and you cannot control your mind and you won't remember what you are saying.

It's very clear after saying unrealized commitment, you will get strife with other people:

5:91  The devil only wants to cause strife between you through intoxicants (khamr) and gambling, and to repel you away from remembering God and from the commitment. Will you be deterred?

Peace

Peace..


good logic

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Re: Jumma prayer
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2012, 08:27:16 AM »
Peace tlihawa.

How can[ 5:6]" BE ABOUT COMMITMENT TO HYGIENE".

Don t you think if it was about hygiene God would have asked you to wash under your arms and other areas that need it most?

It is about " obeying a specific instruction " from GOD as a trial to see who deviates from it. As you can clearly see in " traditional islam" ablution has changed to washing your mouth, ears and nose as well. ie more steps have been added.

Try again your "commitment " idea does not fit?

Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:” I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.”

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Azz

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Re: Jumma prayer
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2012, 10:03:20 AM »
I'm not sure if this is "correct" or not, following by Quran only is new to me. I currently...still attend jumah prayer and carry it out like everyone else (in the masjid I go to anyway) does it. Perhaps it's been beaten into my brain so hard lol, but I just feel that a group of muslims all praying in unison like this is a beautiful thing. Parts of what is currently treated as the standard jumah prayer may be seen as unobligatory or not even necessary but it's the method that's currently in popular use and at the very least it covers everything that's stated in the Quran.