Are we going the wrong way ?

[GODsubmitter]

If you have anything unclear about Quran and if you think that there are many contradict verses post here

It is all written already there, that's why I sent you the link 

[truthsearcher]

It is all written already there, that's why I sent you the link 

I'm sorry but I don't have much time to read all of this. So write here "contradict verses" one by one and we'll discuss

[Wakas]

peace truthsearcher, all,

Your questions/thinking is quite a common reaction, i.e. it is thought about and often asked by others.

Since I have been a forum member for almost 10 years and have been studying Quran for roughly the same time, I will share my thoughts.

Firstly, please bear in mind verse 3:7. This seems to be an under appreciated verse. It's message is very powerful. Please ponder upon it.

Secondly, please do not compare like with unlike. For example, you list quite a number of different views, but be careful you do not confuse the wheat with the chaff. If you ask yourself: how many of those views actually have a detailed article behind them? You will suddenly find the number of variant views reducing dramatically.
Now, once the list of variance is reduced, ponder upon what the differences would be in a practical manner. Usually, the variance, whilst still there, is again reduced.

And lastly, from my studies of Quran, it does seem it placed an emphasis on unity on the core beliefs/laws. If a society has these, how relevant are the rest? If your next door neighbour is law-abiding and righteous but believes one must do cartwheels and handstands in their timed salat - how much does that matter? What if they are law-abiding and righteous but believe their cat is their God - how much does that matter?

Please ponder.

Thanks.

[scaredmuslimah]

peace truthsearcher, all,

Your questions/thinking is quite a common reaction, i.e. it is thought about and often asked by others.

Since I have been a forum member for almost 10 years and have been studying Quran for roughly the same time, I will share my thoughts.

Firstly, please bear in mind verse 3:7. This seems to be an under appreciated verse. It's message is very powerful. Please ponder upon it.

Secondly, please do not compare like with unlike. For example, you list quite a number of different views, but be careful you do not confuse the wheat with the chaff. If you ask yourself: how many of those views actually have a detailed article behind them? You will suddenly find the number of variant views reducing dramatically.
Now, once the list of variance is reduced, ponder upon what the differences would be in a practical manner. Usually, the variance, whilst still there, is again reduced.

And lastly, from my studies of Quran, it does seem it placed an emphasis on unity on the core beliefs/laws. If a society has these, how relevant are the rest? If your next door neighbour is law-abiding and righteous but believes one must do cartwheels and handstands in their timed salat - how much does that matter? What if they are law-abiding and righteous but believe their cat is their God - how much does that matter?

Please ponder.

Thanks.

Wakas,

I liked the reference that you gave in 3:7 and it brought to mind something else, if I may add:

2:255

God, there is no god except He, the Living, the Sustainer. No
slumber or sleep overtakes Him; to Him belongs all that is in
the heavens and the earth. Who will intercede with Him except
with His permission? He knows their present and their future,
and they do not have any of His knowledge except for what He
wishes. His Throne encompasses all of the heavens and the earth
and it is easy for Him to preserve them. He is the Most High, the
Great

Only when Allah (swt) is ready is anything revealed to us (we are allowed to understand). 

And then as I re-read 3:7, it really hit home for me. 

He is the One who sent down to you the Book, from which
there are firm revelations; they are the essence of the Book;
and others which are similar. As for those who have a disease in
their hearts, they will follow what is similar from it seeking to
confuse, and seeking to derive an interpretation. But none know
its interpretation except God, and those who are well founded in
knowledge; they say: “We believe in it, all is from our Lord.” And
none will remember except those who possess intelligence.

All this nit picking over how often should we pray, should we bow three times or four, how many days are we really supposed to fast?  I can't speak for anyone else, but reading that ayat (did I use the right term there?) made me realize just how shallow my worship has become. 

You are right...it is a very powerful verse.

With Peace,

Amina

[Faithful-Jinn]

Wakas,

I liked the reference that you gave in 3:7 and it brought to mind something else, if I may add:

2:255

God, there is no god except He, the Living, the Sustainer. No
slumber or sleep overtakes Him; to Him belongs all that is in
the heavens and the earth. Who will intercede with Him except
with His permission? He knows their present and their future,
and they do not have any of His knowledge except for what He
wishes. His Throne encompasses all of the heavens and the earth
and it is easy for Him to preserve them. He is the Most High, the
Great

Only when Allah (swt) is ready is anything revealed to us (we are allowed to understand). 

And then as I re-read 3:7, it really hit home for me. 

He is the One who sent down to you the Book, from which
there are firm revelations; they are the essence of the Book;
and others which are similar. As for those who have a disease in
their hearts, they will follow what is similar from it seeking to
confuse, and seeking to derive an interpretation. But none know
its interpretation except God, and those who are well founded in
knowledge; they say: “We believe in it, all is from our Lord.” And
none will remember except those who possess intelligence.

All this nit picking over how often should we pray, should we bow three times or four, how many days are we really supposed to fast?  I can't speak for anyone else, but reading that ayat (did I use the right term there?) made me realize just how shallow my worship has become. 

You are right...it is a very powerful verse.

With Peace,

Amina

Yes but historically this is how Muhammad and his followers prayed. The Sunnis are traditionalists. They base everything off tradition and they want Islam to remain the same today as it was hundreds of years ago.

The prophet himself prayed like this and so did his followers. This is not a matter of revelation or divine truth this is historical fact.

So if the prophet himself prayed like this, how can you call it shallow worship?

Are we all so arrogant to believe that we know the Qur'an better than the people it was first revealed to and who followed the prophet himself?

That somehow we have unlocked some truth that others have ignored? The entire exercise is folly because when it comes to religion, truth is always subjective. If every group of Muslims  that claimed another group of Muslims weren't "real Muslims" or weren't "true Muslims" then not a single Muslim would exist on this planet.

You can't all be right but you can all be wrong. To cling to a religious belief is to accept the idea that your interpretation of reality and your idea of truth is correct and all others are wrong or mistaken.

I've come to the point in studying scripture and history that no one religion or sect is right and not a single scripture is divine.

[scaredmuslimah]

I'm sorry if my reply was taken the wrong way.  I meant that constantly being worried about the physical things has caused me to ignore the most important aspect of worship.  Anyone can bow, prostrate, and recite, but do the words have meaning?  Is the prayer heartfelt? If not, then why are we doing it? 

That is what I meant by shallow. 

With Peace,

Amina

[Faithful-Jinn]

I'm sorry if my reply was taken the wrong way.  I meant that constantly being worried about the physical things has caused me to ignore the most important aspect of worship.  Anyone can bow, prostrate, and recite, but do the words have meaning?  Is the prayer heartfelt? If not, then why are we doing it? 

That is what I meant by shallow. 

With Peace,

Amina

Oh I see. My point still remains about truth though.

[scaredmuslimah]

Oh I see. My point still remains about truth though.

I think I am starting to realize that not everyone here has the same goal...maybe I need to sit back and lurk for a while to get feel for everyone...

[Magnus]

Faithful-Jinn: You assert something  something as "historical fact" like this is indisputable, but I gotta ask: how could you possibly be certain that you actually know how Muhammed prayed?
More generally, I think you'd have a hard time finding Quranic evidence that the outer form of prayer matters beyond the instructions in the Book.

[Faithful-Jinn]

Faithful-Jinn: You assert something  something as "historical fact" like this is indisputable, but I gotta ask: how could you possibly be certain that you actually know how Muhammed prayed?

Forgive me perhaps I was hasty. I mean historical evidence would suggest it was highly likely and probable that Muhammad prayed that way.

Do you think Muhammad did the ritual prayer with raka and bowing and prostration?

More generally, I think you'd have a hard time finding Quranic evidence that the outer form of prayer matters beyond the instructions in the Book.

Well I'd have a hard time finding evidence that the Qur'an is from God and Muhammad is His messenger outside of the book too.