Why, are rituals alone not helping??

[mubashir55]

[A litmus test for a society to see that their dedication to religion is working or not is to see how people behave.]
Right now in Muslim countries, the situation of human rights, justice for the poor, good governance, is really pathetic and does not suit people who live and die by Qur’an and Hadith/Sunnah. Little they wonder in spite of all their rituals (which are designed for certain benefits) why their countries suffer from:

- Bad governance
- Corruption, nepotism, discrimination based on ethnicity, bribery, favoritism
- Lack of affordable education
- Lack of affordable health care
- Lack of affordable housing
- Lack of employment opportunities
- Lack of clean streets and drinking water
- Women bashing justified by questionable interpretation of religion
- Lack of respect for those visiting government institutions to get things done
- Child molestation
- Child marriages
- Feudal lords
- Tribalism
- Honour killings
- It is not what you know, who you know syndrome
- Superstition and asking favours from long dead saints
- Lack of tolerance and aversion to healthy debates
- Lack of discipline and aversion to following regulations
- No rule of Law
- Obscurantism and sectarianism runs supreme. Extremism is taken as true faith.
- Lack of affordable justice
- Showing off and tendency to “throw one’s weight around”
- Lack of common courtesy
- Lack of contribution towards ethics, science and technology
- Treating minorities like trash and hoping they would be influenced by Islam

As patients belonging to a sick Ummah, we need to sit up and ask the doctors of religion what are they feeding us in the name of a cure. It is not working for hundreds of years!! We need to examine the medicine to make sure it is the right one. That is, as a thinking people, our responsibility

‎1400 Years ago, the following promise came true. Ever wonder why not now?

24:55 Allah has promised those who have Believed amongst you and have performed righteous deeds, that He will certainly grant them succession to (the present rulers) in the earth, as He granted succession to those before them; and that He will surely establish for them their Religion that which He has chosen for them. And He will surely give them in exchange safety after their (state of) fear — they will pay obedience to Me (Alone), will not associate as partners to Me anything. And whoever disbelieved after this then those people: they are the Fasiqun

[loxbox13]

What is the arabic word ISLAM ?

1 - the main person linked to the word MUSLIM or ISLAM n the quran is IBRAHIM

what are the caracteristics of IBRAHIM ?

1 - Ibra Heem = Liber thirst
2 - Hanifan = Universel  ,  as opposed to Mushrik sectatian
3- He was UMATAN = Mondial or World person
4 - he was Imaman = a master in science ( learn astronomy, mathematics, organisation of a state, Senat etc.. )


A muslim's rituals,  has to be the universel rituals, to be like Ibrahim
what are universel Rituals ?
- brush your teeth every morning
- take a shower every day and stay clean
- dress nice and shave always according to your best look
- go to school,  and study
- learn everything that is science, and everything you find,
- when the age comes, get married, make kids
- work everyday and do your best, so your pay will be deserved
etc................ 
these are some of the universel rituals,  that we have to perform,  to succeed and have a good life


all sectarian rituals, are just a deformation of the universel rituals,  and makes you live under rules and under a veils fabricated by people who likes to control,  and people paractice that to calm their consciousness for the evil things they do

This is Ibrahim , he was a universel , not a jew, nor a christian, and of course not a sunni nor a shia

[good logic]

Peace mubashir55.

Part of the problem is " Deviation from the main message". GOD keeps correcting us, but we stick to old traditions/hocus pocus/ wishful thinking /man made systems...

Even in this forum, GOD ALONE forum, the discussions keeps going around in circles and the main message is being kicked to touch.

What is the main message? What is the system that will work? What would unite all believers ? What would restore success?
Here is some food for though?:

( In the beginning? How long ago? Was there a system/ religion since the start of mankind?)

 

2:213″ (At the start) The people used to be one community, when GOD sent the prophets/ messengers as bearers of good news as well as warners. HE sent down with them a scripture ( The word of GOD only!) bearing the truth ( submission to HIM and total loyalty.) to judge among them in their disputes ( to correct those who have deviated from the truth/To help them find a fair system.). Ironically those who received that scripture ( and deviated) were the ones who rejected any new scripture ( that is meant to correct them) despite clear proofs (that it is from GOD) given to them. This is  due to jealousy and division ( and arrogance). GOD guides those who believe ( submit and are loyal to HIM Alone) to the truth that is disputed by all others ( all the other Systems/ religions), in accordance with his will.”

 

2:253″ These prophets/ messengers; (that GOD has been sending) We blessed some of them more than others .( it is up to GOD, HE tries the believers of every generation.) For example one was spoken to ( by GOD), and We raised some of them to higher ranks. And We gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles, and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Had GOD willed, their followers would not have fought with each other, after the clear proofs have come to them. Instead, they disputed among themselves; Some of them believed ( submitted and stayed loyal to GOD, followed only HIS system.) and some disbelieved. ( and took on other gods/ idols- prophets as idols/their own opinions/ opinions of others.) Had GOD willed they would not have disputed. ( But HE tests the loyalty of everyone) Everything is in accordance with the will of GOD.”

 

2:214″ Do you expect to enter paradise ( be part of the kingdom of GOD) without being tested? ( for your loyalty to HIM?)

 

2:256″ There is no compulsion in Systems/ religion. ( You cannot force anyone to submit and be loyal, they are free to decide for themselves) The right way is now distinct from the wrong way. ( We humans opted for the freedom of choice, that is why we are here living this life. Many take the wrong decision , GOD gives everyone the choice.) Anyone who denounces idol worship ( and disbelief) has grasped the strongest bond; ( submission to GOD and total loyalty to HIM) One that never breaks. ( A connection to GOD)  GOD is Hearer OMNISCIENT.”

( Is this the true system /religion? The only  system/religion? The choice is yours?)

 

2:257″ GOD is the Lord of those who believe. ( Submit and are loyal to HIM Alone) HE leads them out of darkness into the light. As for those who disbelieve, ( or have other idols/ follow other systems) their idols are their lords; They lead them out of the light into darkness.”

( Who is your Lord? Which system are you going to choose?)

 

2:272″ You are not responsible for guiding anyone. GOD is the only one who guides whoever chooses.( to be guided)”

( Did GOD give conflicting messages to these prophets/messengers? Was there one consistent message?)

 

2:285″ The messenger/prophet has believed in what was sent down to him from his Lord ( any prophet /messenger that GOD sent) and so did the believers. They believed in GOD , HIS Angels, HIS Scripture, and HIS past prophets/messengers(The ones that proceeded them).” We make no distinction among any of HIS prophets/messengers”  They say ” We hear and we obey”…( They all brought the same message Submission and total loyalty to GOD ALONE; They all followed the same system.) “

( The same GOD sends the same message?)

 

3:2″ GOD ,there is no god except HE; The LIVING, the ETERNAL.” ( Only the system of submission to HIM will work for us!)

 

3:3″ HE sent down to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming all previous scripture and HE sent down the Torah and the Gospel”

 

3:4″ Before that, to guide the people, and HE sent down the Statute book. Those who disbelieve in the revelations of GOD incur severe retribution; GOD is ALMIGHTY…”

 

3:5″ Nothing is hidden from GOD, on earth or in heaven.”

( ONE GOD? Why the emphasis on ONE?

 

3:18″ GOD bears witness that there is no god except HE; And so do the Angels and those who possess knowledge. Truthfully and equitably, HE is the absolute ONE; There is no other god but HE, the ALMIGHTY, MOST WISE.”

( ONE GOD, one system/ religion one authority?  All power belongs to GOD?)

 

3:19″ The only system/ religion approved by GOD is submission. ( and total loyalty to HIM ALONE) Ironically, those who have received the scripture are the ones who dispute this fact, despite the knowledge they have received due to jealousy. ( and division/ Arrogance.) For such rejecters of GOD s revelations, GOD is most strict in reckoning.”

 

3:29″ Say :” Whether you conceal your innermost thought or declare it, GOD is aware of it. HE is fully aware of everything in the heavens and the earth. GOD is OMNISCIENT.”

 

3:31″ Proclaim:” If you love GOD , you shall follow me”. ( in my submission and total loyalty to GOD ALONE) GOD will then love you (and guide you) and forgive your sins; GOD is forgiver Most MERCIFUL.”

( One GOD, one system/ religion, one set of believers, is this the truth?)

 

3:62″ Absolutely, this is the truth; Surely there is no god except GOD; Truly GOD is the ALMIGHTY, the WISE.”

Any other system will fail. Following GOD Alone and HIS word is the solution.

Is this the only way that will work?
Peace.

[Jafar]

- Bad governance
- Corruption, nepotism, discrimination based on ethnicity, bribery, favoritism

These two are the root cause...

[GODsubmitter]

[A litmus test for a society to see that their dedication to religion is working or not is to see how people behave.]
Right now in Muslim countries, the situation of human rights, justice for the poor, good governance, is really pathetic and does not suit people who live and die by Qur’an and Hadith/Sunnah. Little they wonder in spite of all their rituals (which are designed for certain benefits) why their countries suffer from:

- Bad governance
- Corruption, nepotism, discrimination based on ethnicity, bribery, favoritism
- Lack of affordable education
- Lack of affordable health care
- Lack of affordable housing
- Lack of employment opportunities
- Lack of clean streets and drinking water
- Women bashing justified by questionable interpretation of religion
- Lack of respect for those visiting government institutions to get things done
- Child molestation
- Child marriages
- Feudal lords
- Tribalism
- Honour killings
- It is not what you know, who you know syndrome
- Superstition and asking favours from long dead saints
- Lack of tolerance and aversion to healthy debates
- Lack of discipline and aversion to following regulations
- No rule of Law
- Obscurantism and sectarianism runs supreme. Extremism is taken as true faith.
- Lack of affordable justice
- Showing off and tendency to “throw one’s weight around”
- Lack of common courtesy
- Lack of contribution towards ethics, science and technology
- Treating minorities like trash and hoping they would be influenced by Islam

As patients belonging to a sick Ummah, we need to sit up and ask the doctors of religion what are they feeding us in the name of a cure. It is not working for hundreds of years!! We need to examine the medicine to make sure it is the right one. That is, as a thinking people, our responsibility

‎1400 Years ago, the following promise came true. Ever wonder why not now?

24:55 Allah has promised those who have Believed amongst you and have performed righteous deeds, that He will certainly grant them succession to (the present rulers) in the earth, as He granted succession to those before them; and that He will surely establish for them their Religion that which He has chosen for them. And He will surely give them in exchange safety after their (state of) fear — they will pay obedience to Me (Alone), will not associate as partners to Me anything. And whoever disbelieved after this then those people: they are the Fasiqun

Excellent thread! Thank you for starting it!

[GODsubmitter]

What is the arabic word ISLAM ?

1 - the main person linked to the word MUSLIM or ISLAM n the quran is IBRAHIM

what are the caracteristics of IBRAHIM ?

1 - Ibra Heem = Liber thirst
2 - Hanifan = Universel  ,  as opposed to Mushrik sectatian
3- He was UMATAN = Mondial or World person
4 - he was Imaman = a master in science ( learn astronomy, mathematics, organisation of a state, Senat etc.. )


A muslim's rituals,  has to be the universel rituals, to be like Ibrahim
what are universel Rituals ?
- brush your teeth every morning
- take a shower every day and stay clean
- dress nice and shave always according to your best look
- go to school,  and study
- learn everything that is science, and everything you find,
- when the age comes, get married, make kids
- work everyday and do your best, so your pay will be deserved
etc................ 
these are some of the universel rituals,  that we have to perform,  to succeed and have a good life


all sectarian rituals, are just a deformation of the universel rituals,  and makes you live under rules and under a veils fabricated by people who likes to control,  and people paractice that to calm their consciousness for the evil things they do

This is Ibrahim , he was a universel , not a jew, nor a christian, and of course not a sunni nor a shia

Thank you for this! Beautiful and simple! And so true!

[mubashir55]

Thanks for commenting, Loxbox13.

I not trying to downplay the importance of rituals but wondering why they are not helping us achieve objectives they are designed for. In the past, in spite of these rituals, the Muslims achieved great success in all fields of life.

It may be, perhaps, due to domination of secondary sources, we regard these as the bare minimum/maximum to required to achieve Jannah. In other words, they have become the ends rather than means to certain ends. Instead of thinking of collective success both in this world and the next, rituals have become a means of earning personal sawwabs/rewards (in fact tons of them) through rituals alone.

The world, however does not work this way. Allah has made life a sum of cause and effect. We only reap what we sow and due to neglecting our share in this world at the cost of hereafter, we are down in the dumps (and quite content as secondary sources preach that this world is not important, and that what happens to us after we die is what we need to worry about).

A healthy balance needs to be restored as we learn from the Quran to pray for success not only in the hereafter, but this world as well. Allahs Signs are not only in His Books but are spread all over nature and we ignore them to our peril !!

[Jafar]

Thanks for commenting, Loxbox13.
I not trying to downplay the importance of rituals but wondering why they are not helping us achieve objectives they are designed for.

The rituals are designed to make people goes to mosque.. and give donation to the priest/clerics/ulema..

Organized religion rigid and mechanical rituals was started by the Jewish priest during Late Hellenism period..  due to the fact that the new ruling power (Greeks + Roman) keep all of the tax $$$ to themselves which forced the clerics to devise something else to keep the $$$ flowing to them.

And then those who invented Islam the religion just copied and paste everything from Judaism.. with slight modification of course to make it 'better'..

In the past, in spite of these rituals, the Muslims achieved great success in all fields of life.

And the mechanized rituals actually has nothing to do with it...
The 'free thinking' does..

It may be, perhaps, due to domination of secondary sources, we regard these as the bare minimum/maximum to required to achieve Jannah.

"Jannah" is attainable through good deeds and character and not through rituals or belief..

rituals have become a means of earning personal sawwabs/rewards (in fact tons of them) through rituals alone.

Plus $$$ of donation to the priest and clerics...

The world, however does not work this way. Allah has made life a sum of cause and effect.

Correct..

We only reap what we sow and due to neglecting our share in this world at the cost of hereafter, we are down in the dumps (and quite content as secondary sources preach that this world is not important, and that what happens to us after we die is what we need to worry about).

Truly.. a leap forward for those who used to think that Death is more important than life itself.. (i.e. ancient egyptians and their "Book Of The Dead")

Allahs Signs are not only in His Books but are spread all over nature and we ignore them to our peril!

100% true... and for the conservative.. despite 'those which was written in the book' does not match the reality / fact which 'are spread over the heaven and the earth (which cannot be forged by any human hands).. they keep on clinging to their old thought for the sake of 'conserving the tradition'..

And they labeled those who dare to go against their opinion as Shaytan, Murtad and Kuffars...
Things which has not changed a bit up until now...

Salam / Peace