Author Topic: Meaning of 7:172 and 86:5-7  (Read 705 times)

luna

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Meaning of 7:172 and 86:5-7
« on: July 26, 2012, 02:00:24 PM »
Salam everyone

I need help understanding these verses. And are they scientifically correct?

"And (remember) when thy Lord brought forth from the Children of Adam, from their reins/backs, their seed, and made them testify of themselves..." [7:172]

So let man observe from what he was created. He was created from a fluid, ejected, Emerging from between the backbone and the ribs. [86:5-7]





"Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget, or miss the mark."

DaresBears

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Re: Meaning of 7:172 and 86:5-7
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2012, 05:44:09 AM »
http://muslimonlymuslim.blogspot.co.uk/
My blog about Islamic topics.

noshirk

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Re: Meaning of 7:172 and 86:5-7
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2012, 11:35:46 AM »
Salaam

the two verses are not related

"And (remember) when thy Lord brought forth from the Children of Adam, from their reins/backs, their seed, and made them testify of themselves..." [7:172]

speaks about a testimony we have all made before this life. We have all promised we will worship God and only him

So let man observe from what he was created. He was created from a fluid, ejected, Emerging from between the backbone and the ribs. [86:5-7]

this verse is plausible. Somme people see it as coranic miracle and other as a mistake of quran.
peace

StopS

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Re: Meaning of 7:172 and 86:5-7
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2012, 01:16:26 PM »
As I have explained elsewhere the wording of "the Children of Adam" is nonsensical because the woman is the one giving birth, not the male. Also, the process of one single man and one single woman providing an entire planet with humans is not conceivable.


The relevant meaning given for the word “sulb” in Lane’s lexicon is back-bone;
http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume4/00000436.pdf
 
The next keyword in sura 86:7 that needs examination is “tara’ib” which has been translated as “ribs”.
http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000338.pdf
 
How people arrive at "loins" is beyond me. It's a mix between projecting today's knowledge into an old text and then hoping nobody will notice it. There is no evidence to suggest that the 16th century English euphemistic meaning of the word “loins” applies to the Arabic “sulb”. An analogy of this claim is that of a person looking up the definition of the Arabic term “sa'eed سعيد” in a dictionary and finding its meaning as “happy, gay” etc. However, the person then incompetently concludes that the Arabic word “sa'eed سعيد” means “homosexual” due to the double meaning of the word “gay” in English.
Unprofessional and highly dishonest.

If one were to logically extend the reasoning in the defense of the verse’s veracity, the words “between the backbone and ribs” would necessarily encompass the entire human viscera as well as the brain and the testicles. If this reasoning is considered valid then the Koran’s verse is a maximally ambiguous statement due to the fact that the Koran would be basically saying that
“the part of the body that produces semen is located in the body.”

This statement would encompass every practically possible answer to the question of semen or sperm production. Consequently, that Koranic verse would also be graded with a zero for the absolute lack of precision.  Moreover, it would be nonsensical for anybody to believe that a god i.e. the greatest conceivable being, would produce a maximally ambiguous statement. Considering the fact that the Koran itself states that its statements are “clear” (3:7, 6:114, 11:1, 41:3), it would be illogical for any Muslim who believes in the Koran to also believe that it contains a maximally ambiguous statement.

So the answer is, no, the Koran does not contain any useful scientific statements. And it does not need to as it's a book of spiritual guidance and not a science text-book. It does not require scientific confirmation or proof and logically cannot as it is faith based.


hawk99

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Re: Meaning of 7:172 and 86:5-7
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2012, 09:34:16 AM »
Peace luna,

This verse brings back memories.
turns out, this verse can be translated into english and make no sense
the khalifa translation of this verse is more palatable.

007.172
KHALIFA: Recall that your Lord summoned all the descendants of Adam, and had them bear witness for themselves: "Am I not your Lord?" They all said, "Yes. We bear witness." Thus, you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection, "We were not aware of this."

[86:5-7] again I will use the Khalifa translation because he has a background in science.
He uses the word  "viscera"

086.007
Yakhruju min bayni alssulbi waalttara-ibi
YUSUFALI: Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:
PICKTHAL: That issued from between the loins and ribs.
SHAKIR: Coming from between the back and the ribs.
KHALIFA: From between the spine and the viscera.

My daughter who is a medical student says that the viscera means internal organs.
Now we can translate the verse 86.7 this way:
" From between the spine and the internal organs."

I hope this is helpful

Peace  O0
The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden

Mazhar

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Re: Meaning of 7:172 and 86:5-7
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2012, 03:12:26 PM »
[Before man could see it with eyes, let this be known that] He has been created from that in such water which is  pushing; outpouring, forcefully flowing water. [86:06]

The second peculiarity of this water is that it secrets/discharges from the location situated at the middle of the Loin [Prostrate Anatomy-back], a location which is the central point of the Ribs [Prostrate Anatomy-front]. [86:-07]

The beauty and superb style of verbal narration in the Qur'aan is evident from the fact that the listener and reader of varying level of information and knowledge, in the entire time-line, would perceive the thought and perception conveyed therein, and find it as a proven and established fact according to his own level of information and knowledge, should he be an ordinary illiterate person or be a scientist, philosopher, or highly qualified expert in the area of under discussion subject of discourse.

Word by Word analysis alongwith pictures and medical video animation for appreciating the precision of words of Qur'aan