I renounced my faith in the divinity of the Qur'an today

[justamuslim]

More childishness.

I don't know. The difference between me and you is I claim not to know and you claim to know it is from God.

so when you cannot defend your statements/positions then you resort to name calling and put downs.  typical.   

no faithful-jinn, i don't claim to know as you claim.   read my previous posts.  none of us KNOW except the arrogant.  I BELIEVE in God and his scriptures taking the Koran as my source of guidance BELIEVING it is the word of God. 

again, what exactly is your point here?  of course, you won't address the questions being asked.  instead you go on an attack and you have people like yourself joining in.   i think bigmo was right, just a waste of time.   

[savage_carrot]

[4:163] We have inspired (awḥaynā) you, as we inspired Noah and the prophets after him. And we inspired Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, the Patriarchs, Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon. And we gave David the Psalms.

[6:19] Say, "Whose testimony is the greatest?" Say, "GOD's. He is the witness between me and you that this Quran has been inspired (waūḥiya) to me, to preach it to you and whomever it reaches. Indeed, you bear witness that there are other gods* beside GOD." Say, "I do not testify as you do; there is only one god, and I disown your idolatry."

[16:123] Then we inspired (awḥaynā) you (Muhammad) to follow the religion of Abraham, the monotheist; he never was an idol worshiper.

This is the Rashad Khalifa translation, he uses the word Inspired, many other translations use inspired and some also use revealed.
http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/4/163/default.htm

I don't know Arabic that well, so i can't translate the word, but in English there is quite a big difference between Inspired and revealed, the revealed word of God would be Gods literal word, whereas the inspired word of God would be Gods word through a prophets way of speaking and perspective. So there is a big difference, I'm curious to know which is an accurate translation.

If it is inspired, then it would surely explain what seems to be scientific errors, as it would be from Muhammads perspective.
Just food for thought.

If we take 42:51 and bring in 69:43 (which has a word denoting a staged/progressive revelation if you will)...then it appears to be a literal word by word. If inspired in the english sense, you'd have people waxing lyrical which might include errors and apparently God is being particularly detail conscious here. 52:33 for example, if you're inspired by a kernel of truth e.g. and run with it, can you say the whole is the truth? I don't think so. One could well have made up some stuff in homage to the kernel which is not the idea presented by the verses.

[justamuslim]

These verses do NOT come from a perfect God and therefore I must reject the revelation's claim to divinity.

It truly pains me to say that I must now as a seeker of truth, renounce my faith in the divinity of the Qur'an this day.

ok faithful-jinn, it is you who started this thread by renouncing your faith rejecting the Koran by making the statement the 'verses do NOT come from a perfect God". 

and now you are claiming that you do not know if the Koran is from God.   hmmm..... can you state clearly what your position is?   'don't know" if the koran is from God is different than declaring the koran is not from God.     

[Faithful-Jinn]

ok faithful-jinn, it is you who started this thread by renouncing your faith rejecting the Koran by making the statement the 'verses do NOT come from a perfect God". 

and now you are claiming that you do not know if the Koran is from God.   hmmm..... can you state clearly what your position is?   'don't know" if the koran is from God is different than declaring the koran is not from God.   

Okay let me clarify. I don't believe the Qur'an is the direct word of God anymore but I can neither confirm nor deny if some type of God does exist.

[Jafar]

Do you believe "Qoran" is the word of GOD? How can you choose what suits you then?

Where does it say in the Quran that it's the Word Of God? (Kalamullah)
Show me if you're truthful!

It's again a legacy from "Medieval Scholars" where they're debating whether "Quran is created or not"..
And of course Quran is created.. and it's written by human, using human language.. it's as simple as that..
It's not holy at all....

Qoran does not have contradictions. GOD s commands are a sacred duty!. If you follow your conscience, then your conscience is your "idol". We must follow GOD Alone.

Where does it say in Quran or Gospel or Torah or Tao Te Ching or other books which (some) human considered to be holy that "You should not follow your conscience"

ON CONTRARY..
Within some books in the bible bundle there are description that God DOES talk through our conscience!
And so does in the Quran... people who often ignored his/her own conscience is said to have 'a disease in their own heart'..

And so far my conscience proved to be better than any others..
And the best part is my conscience never declare itself to be holy!!

People who do evil, know very well that they're doing bad deed.. as their conscience told them so...
Yet due to some reasons (greed,hatred,envy,ambition and others) they choose to disregard their own conscience... if they continue to ignore their own conscience, then it will grow darker and darker and darker..

As Quran said it best:
"Those who do bad deed do it for their own souls and those who do good deed do it for their own soul"...

Try It!
Pick any poor beggar on the street, strike him up with a baseball stick or whatever.. or if that's too brutal, steal his money! or mug him! If your conscience are still healthy you'll feel bad of what you did AND you do recognize that what you did is evil! Without consulting any 'holy books' or 'priest'!

Salam / Peace

[DaresBears]

If we take 42:51 and bring in 69:43 (which has a word denoting a staged/progressive revelation if you will)...then it appears to be a literal word by word. If inspired in the english sense, you'd have people waxing lyrical which might include errors and apparently God is being particularly detail conscious here. 52:33 for example, if you're inspired by a kernel of truth e.g. and run with it, can you say the whole is the truth? I don't think so. One could well have made up some stuff in homage to the kernel which is not the idea presented by the verses.

Well, firstly i had to look up the definition of kernel 
But yes, i agree with you, and i do believe the Qur'an is the literal word of God, although i do believe it's presented a form most understandable to the average man, not space age man, no doubt society will regress back from our current knowledge but we will still have the Qur'an.

 I was mostly hoping that my post would at least satisfy Faithful Jinn, surely it's far better to believe it is the inspired word of God then reject it entirely? It seems he has completely overlooked that option, although i haven't read all the replies in this thread.

[justamuslim]

Try It!
Pick any poor beggar on the street, strike him up with a baseball stick or whatever.. or if that's too brutal, steal his money! or mug him! If your conscience are still healthy you'll feel bad of what you did AND you do recognize that what you did is evil! Without consulting any 'holy books' or 'priest'!

Salam / Peace

what if you have no conscience?   people do things thinking they can get away and some even find amusement in hurting others.    if there was no God and holy book talking about judgment day then what about these folks?  no accountability?   

[justamuslim]

Okay let me clarify. I don't believe the Qur'an is the direct word of God anymore but I can neither confirm nor deny if some type of God does exist.

so you are an agnostic then?   what would be your basis to confirm or deny God's existence?  how do you suppose you would go about doing that?   how do you know that God exists in the first place?  doesn't confirming or denying existence entail having knowledge. 

[savage_carrot]

Well, firstly i had to look up the definition of kernel 
But yes, i agree with you, and i do believe the Qur'an is the literal word of God, although i do believe it's presented a form most understandable to the average man, not space age man, no doubt society will regress back from our current knowledge but we will still have the Qur'an.

 I was mostly hoping that my post would at least satisfy Faithful Jinn, surely it's far better to believe it is the inspired word of God then reject it entirely? It seems he has completely overlooked that option, although i haven't read all the replies in this thread.

Felt I had to check the definition after I read that you did

I too think it's in a form most understandable to the average man. It's a discussion I've had off and on: that it's not just some hidden font of obscure veiled references that only the chosen few will get. Sure there are levels and the more perceptive you are, the more you might get from something etc but it's also just...accessible and it has to be since it's for mankind not a culty clique.

yeah, about the op...no idea.

[GODsubmitter]

It would be interesting to know from people who do believe that Quran is the word of God, on which basis they confirm that belief?
 
And if it is not, than we are debating about it as about any other piece of literature, don't we Jafar?