Can Jesus be Son of God as Christians Claim?

[Lena]

JesusSonOfGod.. could you kindly correct my understanding on your view of "What is God?"

God:

Initially a deity residing in Heaven..
One day He decided to forgive the living human's sin to Him which was primarily caused by their great-great-great grandpa's sin to Him
He devises a plot that in order to do that, a human sacrifice / offering need to be made to Him..
He thinks that because of such requirement which required by Him..
The best way to do that is to sacrifice Himself to Him..

Because of it He plan to come down and visit earth as human...
He choose an earthly name for Himself... Jesus..  which was perhaps He considered as 'quite a cool name' for Himself..

And there He did... born into this world.. coming out from a human female c*nt named Mary..
God learned some few ropes about living on earth during His growing up years..
He learn Hebrew. Greeks.. Aramaic.. The Torah... being circumcised..

His mom, Mary also taught Him toilet training and not to fart in front of the public.. and she said to Him:
"Please God... don't do that... according to human that's not nice... don't be rude... just because you're a God don't think that you can do anything you like on earth"..

He also did His daily humane routine task, such as sleeping, taking a bath, cutting His nails, shaving His beard, mustache including His pubic hair.. But God decided to keep His hair long.. He think it is cool.. partly because He grow up listening to Long Hair bands such as Bon Jovi, Scorpions, Led Zeppelin and the likes...

Finally.. God has grown up to reach His adulthood..
He started preaching.. about God... of course that mean about Himself..
He's not alone doing His work.. He has a cousin to also help Him do that..
His name is John The Baptist... thus we can also say that John The Baptist is "The Cousin Of God"..

He also teaches men how to Pray to God.. which mean to Him..
Furthermore it's recorded that He Himself often prayed to Him.. in the silence of the night..

To keep the long story short.. because of His preaching and His hocus pocus magic tricks....
God now has huge fanbase, few loyal followers and a some political enemies who envied His popularity within the people..

His political enemies mostly are priests.. whose main duty supposed to be performing (complex) rites and sacrifices in honor of Him.. Those priests doesn't seem to be aware that this particular famous boy is actually God Himself doing some 'undercover' works on earth... in order to cleanse the sins of human to Him by sacrificing Himself to Him.

Finally.. God's political enemy make his move... he sends out religious police to arrest Him..
God was so anxious about it.. He retreated to a garden named Gethsemane.. and prayed all night long to Him..
God's prayer to God was recorded to be:
"Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt."
Mark 14:35

Hmmm perhaps there's some mistake on the transcription by Mark... I think it should be:
"Me.. all things are possible unto Me; take away this cup from Me: nevertheless not what I will, but what I wilt."
Thus now it makes more sense.. since it is God Himself is praying to God..

Finally God's plan came true... the religious police arrest Him.. put Him into some series of (fake) trials and hearings.. (thus it shall looks good to the people, that justice has been served) and the priests verdict God to be guilty of Blasphemy to God which is a major sin punishable by Death...

And the time came.. the sacrifice of God on a cross in order to save and pardon all humanity from the sins (which they didn't committed themselves but their great-great grandpa did) to Him..
God was suffering from great Agony and he cried out "My Lord, My Lord ! Why Has you forsaken me!!"..

Which is of course a 'drama play'.. to make people think that God is not God.. since He's still under the veil of doing 'undercover works' on earth..

God finally survive the death sentence.. (well what do you expect, He's a God after all)..
At the same time He did achieve His main objective on earth, which is:
"To perform a sacrifice of Himself to Him in order to pardon the sins of humans to Him".

And it's time to part farewell to the earthlings..  they were crying and sad because they will never see God anymore (walking on earth).. and finally He lift Himself up to the sky... (without any rockets) and give out a promise of
"I'll be back!!"..

Halleluya!

Did I missed something?

Salam / Peace

 

[lordfox]

Jesus doesn't exist and neither does God so yes he is the son of god, you just have to add it to your fan fic to make him so.

LMAO

[JesusSonOfGod]

Hi,

To all who's comments of some of the discussions were not satisfied. I think what would help you is to first read the book of Acts in the Bible because that is were we have the testimony of the faith in Jesus. This means all that believe had received the Holy Spirit who gave them spiritual power because they believe Jesus.

Again, this is not just scriptures but records of historical events. What is left for us is to believe that those things happened as were know them from History.

Secondly, the people that we here in the book of Acts are the very same people who wrote the books in the New Testament, therefore we believe their witness and words. That Christ came and died on our behalf and rose from death to glory and He shall come again first to take the church, destroy the son of perdition and rule for 1000years on earth with the saints and then the end of age will come.

Yes, it is true the Jesus is God, just at He said to the "political enemies" you mentioned, it is in the scriptures that God said to human beings "yee, are gods". the public did say they want to kill Jesus because He makes Himself equal with God.

But i think, it should not be your focus for now, your focus should be to understand that even between people, if one can step in your place and say "kill me instead of him" then when he is killed in your place then you are free. Blood for blood.

The mystery is to transfer the prophecies of the old prophets such as Isaiah, Samuel, Jeremiah, Joel, the psalms, Daniel and other into what would be the perfect sacrifice that God will choose. Animals were not helping to completely remove sin, that is clear. But no angel could come and die here since they are not earthly beings no would die the same death.

Therefore, it was necesary for God, to revolutionalize the entire thing by creating the second man, born by His own Spirit as you also agree that Jesus was born by the Spirit of God. Now this Person is the One that all the prophets spoke about and no one else will come except the son of perdition who will claim to be Christ.

Question: Do you believe that Christ or Messiah needed to come? For what? and Who is He?

If you say, "No" then why are we waisting time with you? all religion should have this as basis, the Saviour must come, who is he?

If you say, "Yes" Messiah needed to come. Is His reason not to save both Jews and Gentiles? Is He not the Son of David?

Well the answers are in the Bible, Jesus is the Son of Man and descendent of David and Abraham this even the "political enemies" used to know at that time, whether we like it or not, He came for both Jews and Gentiles as the apostles made it clear. So why must we reject Him, if people are going around preaching forgiveness of sin through Him

You confuse yourself by your comparison of God and an ordinary human being who was born of earthly father and mother with human weaknesses.

Me and you, only know that Jesus was in fact born through the Spirit of God, as to His discretion between flesh and spirituality we can never know until the end when God shall give us the understanding. Yes, He had the same flesh, but the rest was mystery. He said to other group of people, before Abraham was I was, How could He say this infront of people who sees Him presently?, meaning He was there before Abraham, then how can He be a Descendent? The only answer is that He is what He say He is, One that proceeded from God Himself and was seen and touch by mankind.

Apostle Paul also call it a great mystery in 1Timothy 3:16, how God was made visible in flesh. It will take humbleness and submittion to receive that. I don't know even many Christians will ever understand in this life time. But all things will be made clear on that day.

Peace

[good logic]

Peace JesusSonOfGod.

Welcome back.

Yes indeed Jesus is the Messiah, a prophet and messenger of God. Son of Man. ie, Human chosen by God to deliver His message.

Outstanding Christian scholars have reached these same conclusions (THE MYTH OF GOD INCARNATE, John Hick, ed., The Westminster Press, Philadelphia, 1977 & THE MYTH MAKER, Hyam Maccoby,Harper & Row 1986). Christianity is the product of Nicene (AD 325).

The Bible's Jesus

Jesus proclaimed aloud: ``Whoever puts faith in me believes not so much in me as in him who sent me; ..... For I have not spoken on my own; no, the Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and how to speak. Since I know that his commandment means eternal life, whatever I say is spoken just as he instructed me.''
[ John 12:44-50 ]

"I cannot do anything of myself. I judge as I hear, and my judgement is honest because I am not seeking my own will but the will of him who sent me."
[ John 5:30 ]

Jesus said: ``My doctrine is not my own; it comes from him who sent me.''
[ John 7:16 ]

"Men of Israel, listen to me! Jesus the Nazarean was a man whom God sent to you with miracles, wonders, and signs as his credentials. These God worked through him in your midst, as you well know."
[ Acts 2:22 ]

``...The man who hears my word and has faith in him who sent me possesses eternal life.''
[ John 5:24 ]

"Whoever welcomes me welcomes, not me, but him who sent me."
[ Matthew 10:40, Mark 9:37, Luke 9:48, & John 13:20 ]

``...I have not come of myself. I was sent by One who has the right to send, and him you do not know. I know him because it is from him I come; he sent me.''
[ John 7:28-29 ]

Jesus looked up to heaven and said, ``...Eternal life is this: to know you, the only true God, and him whom you have sent, Jesus Christ.''
[ John 17:1-3 ]

All who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
[ Romans 8:14 ]

Jesus looked upward and said, ``Father, I thank you for having heard me. I know that you always hear me but I have said this for the sake of the crowd, that they may believe that you sent me.''
[ John 11:41-42 ]

As he was setting out on a journey a man came running up, knelt down before him and asked, ``Good Teacher, what must I do to share in everlasting life?'' Jesus answered, ``Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.''
[ Mark 10:17-18 ]

``None of those who call me `Lord' will enter the kingdom of God, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven."
[ Matthew 7:21 ]
``...Go to my brothers and tell them, `I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' ''
[ John 20:17 ]

``God is my Lord and your Lord; you shall worship Him alone. This is the right path."
[ Quran 3:51, 19:36, & 43:64 ]

Trinity, the doctrine of God taught by Christians that asserts that God is one in essence but three in ``person,'' Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ``Hear O Israel: The Lord our God is one'' (Deut. 6:4).
[ Encyclopedia Britannica, 1975 ]

God bless.
Peace.

[JesusSonOfGod]

Hi,

thank you, is good to be back, i had pressure at work.

Concerning scholars
Firstly, I firmly believe that a true Christian MUST be filled with the Holy Spirit. I do not know whether this Christian scholars are filled with the Holy Spirit or are just educated in languages and Biblical studies. But I say this because i do not like when people refer to scholars as though we even knew them. People can make error.

But i would like to worn everybody that, the end will not come unless there is " a great falling away" 2Thessalonians 2:3, the falling has already began but those who knows their God will do exploits, we are at the dawn of the last days

Remember, most of the people that opposed the apostles during the days of the early church, were philosophies and urguing the reason and the logic of how can this Jesus be Christ.

Jesus did not come as God or speaking as God, but yes as a messager according to the scripture, as a Son, as a Servant, as a Prophet, as Immanuel and so on. There is nothing in Jesus that you can not find, even as an enemy.

The scripture that my friend you refer to, Matthew 17:21 is wrong, it says that, "not all that call Me Lord, Lord shall see/ enter the kingdom of God". Not "None that call me Lord", Jesus was refering to the fact there are pretenders  who think they will decieve God just because they succeed in deceiving people.

But, as I say the issue of Trinity is True and nothing we can do about it,

The Spirit of God by Whom God fills His people is a part of God,
The physical worlds are materialized from God, Jesus Himself is that part of God that caused creation to be, search all you like you will find that all things seems eternal, it is either transformed to another form or it does not decay. But truly by Jesus, for Jesus all things were made,
But when God introduced Himself as the Superior Being, had to take the stand as the Father, Who created all things as was to be worshipped just as He did not intend for people to have kings but Him,

Now, when Jesus talks, He chooses His audience carefully, when He speaks to the Jews, He made reference to God as God so that the people can receive His message until they come to understand the scriptures. Even some of the disciples did not understand Him, infact all of them did not really get Him until the Holy Spirit came.

The great falling has began, not long the world would not be able to control the wars, later the antiChrist will come to deceive many, then most people shall ask people to give them a piece of that old religion but it won't be there. I saw in the news how even the church of England is said to be irrelevent....

But as Jesus said, the generation of today wants signs (something logical) for them to believe, but nothing will be given except the sign of Jonah (the preaching of repentence and faith in Jesus). But just like the days of Noah, people will be laughing, ignoring and going about their business until the day comes. He said, many false prophets will come and deceive many. Shortly after Him many false prophets came...until this day

Peace, Amen

[good logic]

Peace JesusSonOfGod.

Thank you for your answer.

Please look at the following. I hope we can learn from the bible the truth:

Did Jesus make statements reguarding his status, the words, the will and the power he used ? Let us find out.

WORDS

Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them and said, "My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me.

Joh 14:24 "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me.

Joh 12:49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.

WILL

Joh 4:34 Jesus said to them, "My food is to do the will of him who sent me, and to accomplish his work.

Joh 6:38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

Lu 22:42 saying, "Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done."

POWER

Joh 5:30 "I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

Joh 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.

KNOWLEDGE

Mr 13:32 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Mt 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.
Joh 7:16 So Jesus answered them, "My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me;

STATUS

Mt 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Mr 10:18 And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.

8:50 "And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges.

Some Christians, (not all) claim that Jesus implied that he was God. From the above verses, we see that Jesus denied being God. It now leaves the Christians who believe Jesus is God to provide just one single verse in the Bible where Jesus says "I am God".
So we see from the many quotes above, that the House did not belong to Jesus, it belonged to the ONE WHO SENT him.

Peace.

[JesusSonOfGod]

Thanks for reply,

Friends, for example Lena write comments more jokingly but that is exactly the story. I think during jugment day, no one can say to God, "You are just judging us but You were never there, earth was hard." Cause God will say, "Really, I never came into My Own creation and be just like you and felt the same things as you but came out with 100%, really?"

What my friend you quote from the Bible like I say, look at the context of scriptures and the kind of people Jesus was talking to, they were worse than infants to teach a new doctrine/ covenant as they were rooted in the tradions as though it was the Word of God. For example in John 10, Jesus had made a good underline of the gospel and all of the sudden the Jews pick up the line where He said, My Father, then they want to stone Him and they did not believe He was Christ, He said so Himself in John 10:25. i believe even the Quran says so.

Imagine, honestly, what would have happened if Jesus, came to the Jews and said, "I am God, I put My Self into Marry's womb and I am here for.....". I think no one would have listened to Him. In fact they would have stoned Him. Remember, the people's hearts were far from God to the point that even the words of John the Baptist did not sink in otherwise they would have recognized Jesus from what John said, and Jesus said they make errors because they don't know scriptures.

It is clear that if Jesus is born by the Spirit of God, then He is God's Son and that is true, I am not saying God slept with Marry, that would be earthly wisdom but I am saying The Creator did it again by creating a second Human Being in His own wisdom.

In the Bible we are taught that we are created in the image ans likeness of God. What is our image.
1. Flesh - the physical body that everybody sees
2. The Soul - my emotions, feelings, thoughts,...
3. The spirit man - the real me, when I die, i will be manifest, I am the one controlling my flesh like a robot soon as I am separated the flesh dies and God determines where my spirit goes.

Now, the Image of God
1. The Physical - just as God from Himself created the universe and this He did via His Word and His Word is Jesus and Jesus confirm Peter's answer in Matthew 16:16-17, that He is the Christ and Son of God, Christ is the Word of God
2. The Spirit - Just like the soul of man, the spirit of God has a function to bring understanding, knowledge, righteousness, discernment..... to all creation
3. The Father - just like human has the spirit man, who is the most powerful (determines death) over the flesh and soul, just as you have never seen your spirit man, God the Father is the part of God that only eternity can describe, but for us to understand that part is truly the Father

There is no other image I know, yet God being God is able to release His Spirit and release the physical part and still be in the Throne.

But, it was necessary for Jesus to relate to the people, by teaching them that God is not just God, but the Father, His Father and also our Father, and this He wanted them to know that some are children of satan their father.

So, you ask the exact scripture where Jesus says I am God, but He said it in many ways in fact even some of the scriptures that you quoted. When we were at school, most specially maths, they would say that 1-2 is impossible then few grades later it was possible as -1 then a square root of a negative number is impossible but later we discovered that most systems run on calculation of a square root of negative. For you to get to this truth, you have to seek salvation, accept Jesus as saviour, ask for the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit will teach you all things. Blessed be he that hears and considers, amen.

What i'm saying is that one word there, two words there then you have knowledge then three more there your understand become better it is Human nature.

Thank you. Please recommend another topic

Amen.

[good logic]

Peace JesusSonOfGod.

Thanks for your reply.

So I take it there is not even a single verse in the bible where Jesus said " I am God".  I guessed there would not be. Actually I knew Jesus did not say " I am God".

It is not uncommon to find many Christians who have never read the complete Bible even once, let alone the history of Christianity! If any time is given ,it is spent by going to Church once in a while and listening to the local Minister or Priest, but never really questioning or investigating the truth of what is being said. Various doctrines, that are taken for granted, are never looked into to verify whether they have in fact an origin in the Bible or not.

If we start by looking into Christianity as a religion, when was it established and by who we find startling facts. All the first believers and followers of Jesus were Jews. Jesus himself lived all his life as a Jew. All the first followers of Jesus, and for the first 200 years prayed in the Synagogues.  The earliest known Church was not built until the year 232 A. D., two whole centuries after Jesus died. That is found at Dura-Euphrates #1 (The History of Christianity, a Lion handbook, page 76).

Up till the time Jesus died, Christianity as a religion independent from Judaism, did not exist. In his own words, Jesus asserted that he did not come to establish a new religion, but instead he had come as the fulfilment of the prophecies in the Jewish Scripture (Old Testament):

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil" #2 (The Bible, Mathew 5:17-18)
Many doctrines that constitute the foundation of Christianity, such as the Trinity, have no origin in the Bible. The article of faith up until the end of the 2nd century was:

"I believe in God the Almighty" #3 (Articles of the Apostolic Creed, Theodore Zahn, p. 33-37

Peace to you.

[hawk99]

I agree that the emphatic statement of "I AM GOD" has to be stated throughout
the new testament, heaven and hell hang in the balance.  Scripture must be clear.
One of the the reasons I was refreshed spiritually is this difference between the
Islam and chistianity.  As a christian I needed the bible to have Jesus say:
 "I AM GOD WORSHIP ME" but he never does.  Inferences are not acceptable
as a foundation for deen, the foundation must be clear and indubitable.

Quran says,  "I AM GOD WORSHIP ME ALONE"

I am GOD; there is no other god beside Me. You shall worship Me alone, and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) to remember Me. [20:14] 


Peace

[huruf]

This sonship of god thing is ridiculous. Either it is a figure of speech and we are all children of God, or it is nothing as it concerns any concet that is not animal. Sons and daughters, offspring are thecreatures of the same species obtained by the means of  reproduction of the species. If species do not reproduce then there is no offspring. So it is not the question of God being able of this or that, but it is the use of language that can be correct or can fraudulent. And the use of language to adscribe children to somebody who does not reproduce like animals either it is figurative or it is nonsense or fraud. It is like saying that something whis is white is black because to God nothing is impossible. We could not name or say anything, because the power of God would turn every word useless. To say God has a child is to say that God is an animal and reproduces like an animal. A stone may come from another stone, but it is not its child, it has not reproduced.

The christianity that need to make Jesus God and son of God is a misuse of language, a whimsical contortion of concepts for no reason. All things are from God, all existence comes from God and out of Him, so everything, figuratively is offspring of God. The difference between one thing and another as it concerns godness is the conscience of God that each being has. The more conscience of from where we come and from what we are, the more "children of God" we acknowledge ourselves. Indeed, prophets are conscious, extrmeely conscious, therefore they are inmersed inthis certainte of their origin and end, which is God.

Not only in the bible, in every single proclamation or revelation would God have said everywhere and to every people that indeed He had a son who was an animal son of his, a real son, nos an allegorical son. He hasn't said that anywhere except is seems to a few so called christians, who pretend that "salvation" comes from accepting a certain Jesus as His son, as if stones of furniture or money had children like rats, lice, and other creatures do.

It is a question of twisting language and then saying that if God is allpowerful He can do with language whatever He wants, which is true, but then we could not use that twisted language  because we wouldn't know what we are saying.

Salaam