Other Issues > Christianity/Judaism/Others
Can Jesus be Son of God as Christians Claim?
JesusSonOfGod:
Hi, I would like to start this topic to see what we believe a Son is, what the Qu'ran teach and where the Bible came from and try to understand why would Jesus be the Son of God
357:
--- Quote from: JesusSonOfGod on June 17, 2012, 07:56:42 AM ---Hi, I would like to start this topic to see what we believe a Son is, what the Qu'ran teach and where the Bible came from and try to understand why would Jesus be the Son of God
--- End quote ---
Arn't we all children of God , as your bible says, i think many times over. But i suppose one who is more dedicated to God could be described as the son who did such and such. So he who is most dedicated - truly dedicated and would be willing to give his life for God's way.
JesusSonOfGod:
I beg to differ indeed, though my opion remains my opion. I think even our natural fathers would disown us if we were hard headed to the extreme point, even call us bastards,
Before God we are first His creation and He had a purpose when He created us, but something when wrong. We became slaves of sin and distant to God automatically belonging to satan.
We are all born of mother and father and this is natural. But Jesus born of the Word and Spirit of God, is He not then a Son of God?
Now by adoption, which I believe God is entitled, we need to have the terms of the contract set clear. Yes the basic being that if you full devote to God you are His child, but in which way? Do you propose to God a way and God agrees or does God propose and you agree? I ask my self.
Even the children of Israel God did not call them His children by He called them My people. But they lived in the contract called Old Testament as they had to be justified by the Law which none of them could keep or satisfy,
But we see Jesus coming as the ultimate sacrifice, once and for all and He went through all that was already written concerning Him and obtained a New Contract for us. Now called the New Testament
He being the Son obtained a "Son-ship" contract, in this way, If anyone can listen to Him and do what He said, then we are children of God, then as we grow to be more like Him before God then we become sons and Jesus is Master and always our Reference.
I really do not think we can call ourselves children of God until the issue of how you become a child of God is clearly defined and even enquired from God Himself if we must.
If we reject the Son we also rejected the Father and the Son and the Father are One, so how can we be children to the Father? Truly we are like orphans left in a home with no shelter and all kinds of guidance have made their way to us,
But I believe if we kneel down and ask the Father to receive us as children, through His Child, He will send a true guidance, One Who reveals the New Contract where we can be adopted as children. And the way set clear and with no confusion. Amen
Salam,
Bigmo:
--- Quote from: JesusSonOfGod on June 17, 2012, 07:56:42 AM ---Hi, I would like to start this topic to see what we believe a Son is, what the Qu'ran teach and where the Bible came from and try to understand why would Jesus be the Son of God
--- End quote ---
Jesus is reported to have said “he that hath seen me hath seen the Father” and “I am in the Father, and the Father in me” (John 14:9-10); but in the same passage he shortly goes on to add: “At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.” (John 14:20) Again, while Jesus does proclaim “I and my Father are one” (John 10:30), he also prays for his followers, “that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us.” (John 17:21) Whatever the nature of the “oneness” Jesus is claiming exists between God and himself, it is apparently something that is supposed to hold between God and all Christians – in which case it can hardly be the relation of numerical identity.
Likewise, in the two New Testament passages where Jesus is said to have regarded himself as “equal with God” – John 5:18 and Philippians 2:6 – the Greek word translated “equal” is isos, which means “on the same level” or “of the same rank,” never “identical.” The claim that Jesus was God did not become Christian orthodoxy until the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE. The orthodox reading of these passages seems natural today only because they are read through the lens of what “everybody knows” about Jesus’ claims to divinity; few would find incarnationism in the texts unless they first brought it there.
An objector may point to the opening lines of the Gospel of John, which apparently identify the “Logos” with God (John 1:1) and the “Logos made flesh” with Jesus (John 1:14). Of course these lines were not spoken by Jesus, and so do not show that Jesus himself claimed to be God; but in any case, what exactly are they saying? The relation between God and the Logos seems to fall short of strict identity; the Greek, literally translated, says something like “the Logos was with the God, and God is what the Logos was” – an awkward construction clearly trying to express a subtler relation than identity. The term “Logos” is borrowed from Greek philosophy, where it means a thing’s abstract rational nature; the Logos that is “with” God and is what God is, is not God but God’s nature. To say that Jesus is the Logos made flesh, then, is simply to say that he is a physical embodiment of God’s nature. This hardly makes him identical with God, since all human beings are supposed to be created from God’s spirit (Genesis 2:7) and in God’s image and likeness (Genesis 1:26-27).
Indeed the New Testament authors clearly understand Jesus as offering everyone the opportunity to be sons (and daughters) of God and to partake of God’s nature:
“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” (John 1:12-13)
“For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. ... And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ.” (Romans 8:14-17)
“Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him.” (1 John 3:2)
As the New Testament authors understand Jesus’ message, being the “Son of God” is evidently not a status that Jesus claims for himself alone, but one that is open to all Christians;
http://praxeology.net/unblog02-04.htm
Abdul-Hadi:
Greetings and Peace, all :group:
Quick version (link goes to an article hosted by AISH titled Why Jews Don't Believe in Jesus):
http://www.aish.com/jw/s/48892792.html
Long, scholarly version (link goes to The Grounds of Christianity Examined by Comparing The New Testament with the Old):
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/15968
AQ also has plenty to say on the subject. If one takes AQ to be true, the answer on this basis alone is "no." The links provide evidences mainly through the Bible.
On the other hand, those who follow the teachings/example of Jesus (peace upon all Prophets) are Guided, ISA.
ALLAH knows best.
:peace:
~Abdul-Hadi
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