God's Care

[Jafar]

-EDIT- & the Quran gives a "Western" description of the god, once again attributing traits like "all-powerful", "just", and "merciful" (and not just simply "the driving force of everything" as you claim), things that are outright and ridiculously wrong with what goes on in this world. It even claims to have emotions, what with it being "angry" and "satisfied" from our doings, and even attributes body parts ("the hand of...", "in the eyes of...") to itself. Human-like and Western? I think so.

It is... as Quran main target audience are middle-easterners with centuries old habits of 'personifying thus deitifying everything'. (God of the Sky, God of the desert, God of the mountain, God of the ocean, God of the Penis, God of Vagina etc..)

Salam / Peace

[Carlee]

Ok, so what are you implying? That we concede the Quran is wrong with what it says and that the truth is uglier than what it suggests, i.e. the world is the way it is. It may have a "driving force", though no god with the attributes it (the Quran) claims that god has. Perhaps the wording is so off with the Quran I'm hardly seeing the purpose of reading it any longer.

If this is the consensus we can reach in this "all support for the belief in God" forum, then I'm down with that.

[good logic]

Peace Carlee.

Whether _ that is it- depends on you. If you are expecting this forum or any other man made system to help you reach " the belief in GOD", I am afraid you are wasting your time.

Only your Creator Alone can do that. He knows you deep down, every thought you are thinking or will think, and if there is no sincerity there, you will fail..It is as simple as that.
Peace.

[Carlee]

Alright. I think I'm done here and that pretty much everything has been said, and in the future I'll make another topic about something, with the assumption the Quran is right for the sake of that topic (or if there's already a relevant topic, I'll add to it).

Take care all.

[MaverickMonotheist]

Replies to the last responses to me in order since I don't find them quote-worthy:

- "Mental suffering is a symptom of our inability to reason" is your argument. Alright, and a merciful all-powerful god out there is ok with this suffering happening. Never mind how it, in the first place lets it be that a person is "unable" to reason. Right.

Hi Carlee,

Yes, God is ok with this mental suffering, because this angst that marks the human experience is what draws us to search for somethign beyond ourselves.  It causes us to search for a way of life that brings justice to the world.  In the animal kingdom, do you really think that animals think about their station in life?  Do they think about justice, fairness, the question of whether or not God exists?  We have no indication that they do.  They simply exist, and therefore whatever happens happens.  We humans, however, we are sometimes tormented even in our minds at the state of our lives and the state of the world, and I believe God has created us with this discomfort in order to push us to seek for God and create justice in the world.  If you are not aware that there is a problem, then you don't know to look for a solution.

You personally experience maybe a lot of existential angst?  It pushes you to look for answers.  And you do not accept easy and nice answers.  You want the real answers, hence you argue and reject most of what you hear.  But you will not get any answers at all until you realize the limits of the reason you are using.  Reason is deconstructive.  It can only reject what is untrue.  It can only tell you what you don't believe.  To find what you should believe, you will have to start looking for truth with the heart.  I don't expect you to believe this, but it is possible to scrutinize with reason and search with the heart.  To search with the heart, you must pray.

-Joel

[Carlee]

I agree with that, thanks. I just wish this wo...know what, never mind. I concede.

[MaverickMonotheist]

I don't want you to "concede".  This isn't a contest.  You came here with some questions and statements and said some things that made it sound like you are in a lot of pain.  We want to help as best we are able, that is all. 

This world sucks, sometimes.  There's no question of that.  Our own minds suck sometimes, too.  We have a hard time letting go of the past and we want to be able to figure everything out for ourselves.  I don't have all the answers, and I certainly don't have anything to say that can take away a person's own struggle.  But I can tell you what my experience has been and maybe that will be something you find helpful.

Would you consider praying?  Would you consider reading the Qur'an?  If you want to continue this discussion and don't want to do it on this thread, you can PM me.

-Joel

I agree with that, thanks. I just wish this wo...know what, never mind. I concede.

[renztubz]

God always have good reasons beyond everything happened.

[Zulf]

I haven't read this thread in a long time, and hence don't remember all the points back n forth.

But, my personal advice for anyone who find him/herself in suffering, is to start desiring betterment, with clear focus in the mind,... betterment in the situation and one's understanding... that is.. to find the truth.. more and more. (And if the quran doesn't make sense, just leave it, at least for now.) Our minds cannot create happiness through arguments and logic. Forget the images of God that is in the mind. It will only lead to misunderstanding and frustration.

Just pray/desire/ask for increased understanding and truth. Just send the desire out of you... don't address it to some specific divine character from the history books. Go with your gut feeling. Be simple and don't think so much.

Peace and joy!

[Carlee]

There's not one thing other than being genitally mutilated at birth (and obviously w/out my consent) that mentally hurts me more now for the physical results of this barbaric act. It originated from Judaism and made its way into Christianity and Islam. Of course with Christianity, abiding to the old laws (most of which are man-made, since this is corrupted Judaism being discussed) hardly applies, so that's why 98% of males in Europe aren't mutilated and America is pretty much the only Christian country who does it, and unsurprisingly started sometime after the Holocaust when they befriended the Jews so much, and with mainstream Islam, you know there's no hope. They endorse that just as much, and even to some extent for females.

When I made this topic, I couldn't be taking more of the grief caused by my older brother (who had anxiety-based OCD and depression, though made the choice to irritate the crap out of people just so he's satisfied). Mid-way of this thread, this female hurt me like no tomorrow over FB; even if not intentional, I made it clear to her how I was affected and the person never responds, and blocks me instead. This was a lot worse to me than it sounds; you'd have to be me to realize it, and know how it makes you want death so much. Later I come to find out more about the terrible effects of circumcision (started reading in 2009) and learned it's far worse than I initially thought. I've come to realize how much God-given pleasure has been stripped due to people's ignorance, lack of common sense, and care to let me decide what happens to my OWN body (and obviously I'm not going to screw myself up by having a very purposeful part of my penis cut off)! I bet if I was kept unmutilated up to this point, I'd be getting a hell of a lot more stress relief and happier, and hence see more of an incentive to desire a future for myself (which I don't now).

I know there are a lot of circ'd boys/men, probably on this forum even, though with me, being a victim of this does not just take a physical toll, but a severe mental/psychological/emotional one as well.

All of these problems mentioned are due to people, so I don't much doubt that people are more directly to blame for any of these.