Critical Examination of Islam > What is the nature of God?
God's Care
nevashiva:
Hi Carlee, a quick note on what God says in the Qur'an I am still struggling with a lot of God's ways my self...but in the Qur'an as far as I have seen God doesn't deny his involvement in bad things anyways!!...
There is a verse where he says to ask the Christians and Jews, how could they claim themselves as the children/loved ones of God, if he allows suffering to be inflicted on them. And I believe here he is refuting the idea that we are indeed children of God, or that God's love is unconditional.
Also just now I was reading and I remembered your post he says that if God inflicts harm on you only he can lift it.
"And if Allah should touch you with adversity, there is no remover of it except Him; and if He intends for you good, then there is no repeller of His bounty. He causes it to reach whom He wills of His servants. And He is the Forgiving, the Merciful" (10:107)
Also there is the concept that not everything that seems bad is actually bad..and vice versa but that's not your point I am sure.
But what I feel is that God, does test our faith, he keeps saying when humans are blissful and enjoying their life they are quick to forget me!..and that is human nature we are ungrateful. I used to feel so bad that God labelled us humans as ungrateful, but I am thinking now maybe it is not a blaming statement, as much as demonstrating how God knows our nature, and that's part of what shows the truth of him being the creator and knowing us better than we know our selves...at least we we look at our selves at fist glance.
I really believe suffering is a way that forces human to reflect on deeper question, I mean if I have no problems in my life I wouldn't be confronted every now and then by big questions and why on earth was I created you know?
All I am saying in the Qur'an God doesn't deny bad things to be related to him, however there is a verse that says that bad things are inflicted by ourselves while Good things are inflicted by him. So...still I am trying to figure out the whole message...
10:44 اِنَّ اللّٰہَ لَا یَظۡلِمُ النَّاسَ شَیۡئًا وَّ لٰکِنَّ النَّاسَ اَنۡفُسَہُمۡ یَظۡلِمُوۡنَ
However God here says he is not unjust to people, people are unjust to themselves, it is not as a previous post explained `wrongs us', justice in God's eyes could be severe pain and suffering. So yeah that's the verse I was talking about and I guess I just answered my self :). Doing wrong implies that he doesn't do anything hurtfull, that is not what the verse implies as far as I can read.
That is just purely my ramblings I am still someone who for the first time trying to read the Qur'an...so I don't know just a thought.
Take care and I hope you are not unhappy at the moment :)
Sorry that I didn't quote any of the verses, I have a phobia against numbers lol.
Edit: I am surprised most of the replies by fellow Muslims here seem to have this tone that God has nothing to do with bad things, which is strange because I am so used to Muslims explaining that God doesn't work that way, people who are happy could be happy for the wrong reasons, and they could be misguided and God leaves them to their pleasures. And that he does test our faith with suffering?
Even some say it is a sign when things are going wrong in your life that maybe God is nudging you.
It is not as simple as it seems I realize but this is how most Muslims I have seen perceive God. At the end of the day God's sole concern is that we worship him according to the Qur'an. So...I don't know, I believe our happiness stands on understanding that is what our purpose. MY OPINION AND PERCEPTION
The idea that God is blissful all the time is more of a christian thing...well unless you are westboro baptist church :)
nevashiva:
Oh also I didn't see you opened a discussion about Clinical depression.
Carlee...I am sorry...I am having a lot of trouble understanding psychiatry these days...they have a lot of claims of chemical imbalance being the main reason behind depression but not a single proof, till now and it has been quiet sometime...I graduated pharmacy and we were taught the many hypothesis that surrounds depression being a chemical problem. Not a single proof.
Alzeheimer's has proof, Parkinson's has proof, but not depression and bipolar and schizophrenia there is not a single blood or diagnostic tool other than the objectivity of a human eye, which is what is involved in the idea of God as well...still people don't seem to argue that one much.
I am definitley someone who struggled with depression for the longest time in my life, and suicide was my ultimate solution for...actually I think for the first time this year I have actually started to feel calmer.
I did a lot of research, ultimately the best explanation I found for depression, is perceiving the world as hopeless due a certain circumstance, I know a lot don't like that idea, but it is finally when I realized what is it that I hate about life so much, and feeling so helpless about it is what made me feel well then what is the point.
I really think life these days is overwhelmed with material gains, that emotions have no time to figure or sort themselves out, and we bottle up a lot of frustrations that makes our eyes unable to see anything positive. And medicine has taken an approach of we need to be as 'efficient' as possible, and also an approach of we don't need to fix things at the core level, other wise you lose the business.
Sounds brutal but unfortunately that's humans being concerned they will starve to death if they do otherwise. I mean I even heard doctors giving painkillers to addicts and they know they are abusing it and them saying...'What can I do?' which sounds like huh...
I don't know what I am trying to say, other than that you need to dig deeper and deeper to figure how things are worked out in this world, things are not what they appear at all. Especially when money is involved.
I used to take antidepressants but I couldn't stomach that zombie feeling it felt like if I killed someone it would still be of no matter, which sounds like any mind altering drug, but it just doesn't cause you to crash cars accidentally that is why it is ok by everyone. They do help when the feeling is really intense, but I really believe people who experience that (I could be very wrong) should really do heavy heavy soul searching into why do they think they feel this way. Something as simple as their eating habits, to being abused. But I believe emotions are there to tell us something you know...I mean...even pain indicates there is something going on that needs to be looked at...it is a symptom I guess that's the word I want to use. It is not the problem.
Meh...more ramblings :)
Edit :And feeling hopeless is not something that is foreign in the Qur'an, there is a verse that I remember when I first read it I cried a lot because I really understood what she was saying, where Miriam pleas God to stop the suffering, and wishes she was something forgotten I know that feeling oh so well, and I was so glad that finally I knew that it is not lack of faith and that God doesn't hate me for feeling so depressed that I'd rather disappear.
And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm tree. She said, Oh, I wish I had died before this and was in oblivion, forgotten. (19:23)
But he -Gabriel -called her from below her, Do not grieve; your Lord has provided beneath you a stream. (19:24)
SORRY FOR THE TEXT WALL!
justamuslim:
there are different kinds of suffering. example - if a strong wind suddenly blows knocking me down and i end up breaking a leg - this would be a bad thing which was not self-inflicted by me or by another human being.
good logic:
Peace justamuslim.
For every example, there is a counter example:
A strong wind could blow you down, then you just get up and walk away, nothing broken.
Or even a hurricane comes all of a sudden and you happen to be safe inside. While it devastated all around you, you stayed safe.
Peace.
Meteora:
I have experiences in that field too...I hope the better for him (or her).
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