Author Topic: could someone explaine what being Quranist is about to a newbie  (Read 357 times)

safia

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Do you guys believe in religion?
what does kufr mean to you?

what does this aya say to you?

Lo! Allah and His angels shower blessings on the Prophet. O ye who believe! Ask blessings on him and salute him with a worthy salutation.
( سورة الأحزاب , Al-Ahzab, Chapter #33, Verse #56)

And this Aya?

O Prophet! say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Dont call yourself a name other then Muslim, if you are a muslim

what is you opinion on the last statement ?

Before anyone start thinking im sunni or shia looking for refutation please read the questions I
have posted on other forums.

PICKTHAL: It is made lawful for you to go in unto your wives on the night of the fast. They are raiment for you and ye are raiment for them. Allah is Aware that ye were deceiving yourselves in this respect and He hath turned in mercy toward you and relieved you. So hold intercourse with them and seek that which Allah hath ordained for you, and eat and drink until the white thread becometh distinct to you from the black thread of the dawn. Then strictly observe the fast till nightfall and touch them not, but be at your devotions in the mosques. These are the limits imposed by Allah, so approach them not. Thus Allah expoundeth His revelation to mankind that they may ward off (evil

why do we fast only to magrib and not to layl (nightfall),like it says in this aya above, there is a difference between magrib time and layl (nightfall)?

002.229
YUSUFALI: A divorce is only permissible twice: after that, the parties should either hold Together on equitable terms, or separate with kindness. It is not lawful for you, (Men), to take back any of your gifts (from your wives), except when both parties fear that they would be unable to keep the limits ordained by Allah. If ye (judges) do indeed fear that they would be unable to keep the limits ordained by Allah, there is no blame on either of them if she give something for her freedom. These are the limits ordained by Allah; so do not transgress them if any do transgress the limits ordained by Allah, such persons wrong (Themselves as well as others).

 
In this aya not the translation above, does it not say divorce is twice, in al baqra vers 229, where did we get the three talaq/divorce, and does it not go against this aya?

SHAKIR: And whoever among you has not within his power ampleness of means to marry free believing women, then (he may marry) of those whom your right hands possess from among your believing maidens; and Allah knows best your faith: you are (sprung) the one from the other; so marry them with the permission of their masters, and give them their dowries justly, they being chaste, not fornicating, nor receiving paramours; and when they are taken in marriage, then if they are guilty of indecency, they shall suffer half the punishment which is (inflicted) upon free women. [/u] This is for him among you who fears falling into evil; and that you abstain is better for you, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Doesn't this aya indecate clearly that the punishment of free married women who is guilty of indecency is not! stoning to death, isn't the aya saying a slave women married who commited indecency her punishent is half the punishment of a free women, what is the half of murdered with stones? is what it says in the ahadith more compulsory then the Quran?


002.176
SHAKIR: This is because Allah has revealed the Book with the truth; and surely those who go against the Book are in a great opposition

Is this way not more correct: Those who disagree in the book are in great schism, any who disagree in the book (ex.the different sects) are in agreat opposition against Allah and his messenger.


SHAKIR: Those only are believers whose hearts become full of fear when Allah is mentioned, and when His communications are recited to them they increase them in faith, and in their Lord do they trust.

Isn't the fear mentioned in the quran so often a physical fear one feels of Allah and his punishment and doesn't the aya above clear this,why do the translators write: keep duty to, ward off evil, gaurd against and careful of (your duty to)?

002.021 
PICKTHAL: O mankind! worship your Lord, Who hath created you and those before you, so that ye may ward off (evil).

Fear that grows the more we worship like the aya above explains, why dont we grow that physical fear if our worship is correct?

Nay,-whoever submits His whole self to Allah and is a doer of good,- He will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
Whoever submits his whole self to Allah, and is a doer of good, has grasped indeed the most trustworthy hand-hold: and with Allah rests the End and Decision of (all) affairs.


Islam means to submit oneself completly does it not, how can we at the same time persue anything of this world? doesnt submit in religion context really mean submiting one self wholy to allah, living a life of religion ONLY and relying on Him for everything. and try to optain what you need second.

Not besides submiting you can optain what you need, like sheikhs, scholars say
why do we finish the salat (prayer) with looking at our right hand side first, When we leave the badroom we leave the left foot behind, and take the right one first out, should we be leaving the salat (the prayer) looking at the righthand side first, leaving the lefthand side for later like the way we leave the badroom? is this the same way our prophed (saw) finished prayer?

Much of our prayer or salat is so indirectly ex. instead of invoking God directly saying glory be to you o my lord, you are the most great, we say glorified is my lord the most great.

SHAKIR: And keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and bow down with those who bow down.albaqra 43

How is the prayer sent down at when our prophet (saw) was raised up (described in surat al isra and surat al najm) when in fact in surat al baqra in the begning the salad is mentioned as if thou it existed already?,is there any proof in the Quran that shows the Qurans order is not the way it was sent down?


PICKTHAL: Lo! thy Lord knoweth how thou keepest vigil sometimes nearly two-thirds of the night, or (sometimes) half or a third thereof, as do a party of those with thee. Allah measureth the night and the day. He knoweth that ye count it not, and turneth unto you in mercy. Recite, then, of the Qur'an that which is easy for you. He knoweth that there are sick folk among you, while others travel in the land in search of Allah's bounty, and others (still) are fighting for the cause of Allah. So recite of it that which is easy (for you), and establish worship and pay the poor-due, and (so) lend unto Allah a goodly loan. Whatsoever good ye send before you for your souls, ye will find it with Allah, better and greater in the recompense. And seek forgiveness of Allah. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Was it just our prophet (saw) whom it has been made obligatory the tahhajjud prayer, when in the end of surat al muzzammil we see he was not the only one praying it, and others are encouraged in the same aya,in this case how can it be only five obligatory prayer?

SHAKIR: Say: I am only a mortal like you; it is revealed to me that your god is one Allah, therefore whoever hopes to meet his Lord, he should do good deeds, and not join any one in the worship of his Lord.Why do we speake directly to the prophet (saw) in our prayer saying O messenger and ending the prayer with speaking directly to him by saying peace be on you dirictly to him, isn't the salat a

worship should we be revering to anyone else directly other than Allah ?isnt ending a prayer this way joining somone in the worship of Allah

why dont we say: o our lord give your peace and blessing on our prophet or let o our lord your peace and blessing be on our prophet

PICKTHAL: Their prayer therein will be: Glory be to Thee, O Allah! and their greeting therein will be: Peace. And the conclusion of their prayer will be: Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds!

what better way is there to start and end a da'awa, then how the people of paradise will do?


Abdul-Hadi

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Re: could someone explaine what being Quranist is about to a newbie
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2012, 10:54:04 AM »
Greetings and Peace, all  :group:

In reference to the title of the topic, many eschew the title "Quranist" and prefer muslim or monotheist.  "Quranist" is most often (but not always!) used as a label by others that do not subscribe to the same Deen/system as those that they label.

My comments in red.  Comments are my understanding/opinion only as of the time of posting.  I don't speak for any others.


Do you guys believe in religion?

I recognize that religions exist.  My understanding is that they are all manmade.  Islam as described/blueprinted in AQ is a Deen/system.  True islam, if you will.

what does kufr mean to you?

Active rejector.

what does this aya say to you?

Lo! Allah and His angels shower blessings on the Prophet. O ye who believe! Ask blessings on him and salute him with a worthy salutation.
( سورة الأحزاب , Al-Ahzab, Chapter #33, Verse #56)

With that translation, I interpret it to mean to show respect to the Prophet (peace upon all Prophets).  This may have been limited to the lifetime of the Prophet.  Similar is 49:3:

Surely, those who lower their voices with the messenger of GOD, they are the ones whose hearts have been tested by GOD for righteousness. They have deserved forgiveness and a great recompense.

I find it interesting that the FM translation is so different for 33:56.

33:56 GOD and His angels make contact with the prophet. O you who believe, you shall make contact with him, and comply completely.

And this Aya?

O Prophet! say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Adopt a modest dress, not only for modesty but also as a form of identification and protection.

Dont call yourself a name other then Muslim, if you are a muslim

what is you opinion on the last statement ?

Most all people think organized religion when they hear "Muslim."  It is good to retake the word, but ultimately all words are labels.  Monotheist or GOD/ALLAH alone are equally good labels, ISA.

Before anyone start thinking im sunni or shia looking for refutation please read the questions I
have posted on other forums.

PICKTHAL: It is made lawful for you to go in unto your wives on the night of the fast. They are raiment for you and ye are raiment for them. Allah is Aware that ye were deceiving yourselves in this respect and He hath turned in mercy toward you and relieved you. So hold intercourse with them and seek that which Allah hath ordained for you, and eat and drink until the white thread becometh distinct to you from the black thread of the dawn. Then strictly observe the fast till nightfall and touch them not, but be at your devotions in the mosques. These are the limits imposed by Allah, so approach them not. Thus Allah expoundeth His revelation to mankind that they may ward off (evil

why do we fast only to magrib and not to layl (nightfall),like it says in this aya above, there is a difference between magrib time and layl (nightfall)?

Every person does/should do according to their best understanding.

002.229
YUSUFALI: A divorce is only permissible twice: after that, the parties should either hold Together on equitable terms, or separate with kindness. It is not lawful for you, (Men), to take back any of your gifts (from your wives), except when both parties fear that they would be unable to keep the limits ordained by Allah. If ye (judges) do indeed fear that they would be unable to keep the limits ordained by Allah, there is no blame on either of them if she give something for her freedom. These are the limits ordained by Allah; so do not transgress them if any do transgress the limits ordained by Allah, such persons wrong (Themselves as well as others).

 
In this aya not the translation above, does it not say divorce is twice, in al baqra vers 229, where did we get the three talaq/divorce, and does it not go against this aya?

It does go against the aya. Also:

5:89 GOD will not hold you for your casual oaths, but He will hold you for what oaths you have made binding; its cancellation shall be the feeding of ten poor from the average of what you feed your family, or that you clothe them, or that you free a slave; whoever cannot find such shall fast for three days; this is a cancellation for making your oaths when you swear. And be careful from making oaths. It is such that GOD clarifies for you His revelations that you may be thankful.

SHAKIR: And whoever among you has not within his power ampleness of means to marry free believing women, then (he may marry) of those whom your right hands possess from among your believing maidens; and Allah knows best your faith: you are (sprung) the one from the other; so marry them with the permission of their masters, and give them their dowries justly, they being chaste, not fornicating, nor receiving paramours; and when they are taken in marriage, then if they are guilty of indecency, they shall suffer half the punishment which is (inflicted) upon free women. [/u] This is for him among you who fears falling into evil; and that you abstain is better for you, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Doesn't this aya indecate clearly that the punishment of free married women who is guilty of indecency is not! stoning to death, isn't the aya saying a slave women married who commited indecency her punishent is half the punishment of a free women, what is the half of murdered with stones?

Preaching to the choir my friend!  Of course there is no "half of murdered!"  :sun:

is what it says in the ahadith more compulsory then the Quran?

Nah!


002.176
SHAKIR: This is because Allah has revealed the Book with the truth; and surely those who go against the Book are in a great opposition

Is this way not more correct: Those who disagree in the book are in great schism, any who disagree in the book (ex.the different sects) are in agreat opposition against Allah and his messenger.

Although the meaning is similar, I can't agree with the modifications.  To each their own understanding. FM translation:

2:176 This is because GOD has sent down the Book with the truth; and those who have disputed about the Book are in far opposition.

SHAKIR: Those only are believers whose hearts become full of fear when Allah is mentioned, and when His communications are recited to them they increase them in faith, and in their Lord do they trust.

Isn't the fear mentioned in the quran so often a physical fear one feels of Allah and his punishment and doesn't the aya above clear this,why do the translators write: keep duty to, ward off evil, gaurd against and careful of (your duty to)?

Is love stronger or fear?  :hmm  Is ALLAH to be loved or feared?  I like the translation of "reverence" instead of fear.  ALLAH has no needs.  Anything that we do is not for ALLAH, not necessarily because we don't intend but because it *can't* be.  What the translators write of are the consequences of reverencing/fearing ALLAH--guarding against evil, being steadfast/dutiful, etc.

002.021 
PICKTHAL: O mankind! worship your Lord, Who hath created you and those before you, so that ye may ward off (evil).

Fear that grows the more we worship like the aya above explains, why dont we grow that physical fear if our worship is correct?

Worship helps to build our knowledge of a connection/consciousness.  Here is an example from AQ:

12:23 And the woman, in whose house he was staying, attempted to seduce him away from himself. And she closed the doors and said: "I have prepared myself for you." He said: "I seek refuge with GOD, He is my Lord, He has made good my stay; the wicked do not succeed."

12:24 And she desired him and he desired her, if it had not been that he saw the proof of his Lord; it was thus that We turned evil and immorality away from him; he is of Our loyal servants.


Again, fear used as "being afraid" may not be the best meaning as used in AQ.

2:21  O people, serve your Lord who has created you and those before you that you may be righteous.

Nay,-whoever submits His whole self to Allah and is a doer of good,- He will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
Whoever submits his whole self to Allah, and is a doer of good, has grasped indeed the most trustworthy hand-hold: and with Allah rests the End and Decision of (all) affairs.


Islam means to submit oneself completly does it not, how can we at the same time persue anything of this world? doesnt submit in religion context really mean submiting one self wholy to allah, living a life of religion ONLY and relying on Him for everything. and try to optain what you need second.

The Deen integrates into daily life; ALLAH has no needs.  Being a good person and striving towards good while actively resisting evil (internal and external) while maintaining monotheism/connection with ALLAH is how one submits completely.  What "religion" was Abraham (peace upon all Prophets)?  The only religion (not used in conventional sense) is monotheism (2:135, 3:95, 4:125, 6:79, 10:105, 16:123, 30:30).

Much of our prayer or salat is so indirectly ex. instead of invoking God directly saying glory be to you o my lord, you are the most great, we say glorified is my lord the most great.

This varies among people.

SHAKIR: And keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and bow down with those who bow down.albaqra 43

How is the prayer sent down at when our prophet (saw) was raised up (described in surat al isra and surat al najm) when in fact in surat al baqra in the begning the salad is mentioned as if thou it existed already?,is there any proof in the Quran that shows the Qurans order is not the way it was sent down?


PICKTHAL: Lo! thy Lord knoweth how thou keepest vigil sometimes nearly two-thirds of the night, or (sometimes) half or a third thereof, as do a party of those with thee. Allah measureth the night and the day. He knoweth that ye count it not, and turneth unto you in mercy. Recite, then, of the Qur'an that which is easy for you. He knoweth that there are sick folk among you, while others travel in the land in search of Allah's bounty, and others (still) are fighting for the cause of Allah. So recite of it that which is easy (for you), and establish worship and pay the poor-due, and (so) lend unto Allah a goodly loan. Whatsoever good ye send before you for your souls, ye will find it with Allah, better and greater in the recompense. And seek forgiveness of Allah. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Was it just our prophet (saw) whom it has been made obligatory the tahhajjud prayer, when in the end of surat al muzzammil we see he was not the only one praying it, and others are encouraged in the same aya,in this case how can it be only five obligatory prayer?

There are a lot of different understandings regarding prayer/worship.  Rely only on AQ and your best understanding.  Know that ALLAH has no needs.

SHAKIR: Say: I am only a mortal like you; it is revealed to me that your god is one Allah, therefore whoever hopes to meet his Lord, he should do good deeds, and not join any one in the worship of his Lord.Why do we speake directly to the prophet (saw) in our prayer saying O messenger and ending the prayer with speaking directly to him by saying peace be on you dirictly to him, isn't the salat a

worship should we be revering to anyone else directly other than Allah ?isnt ending a prayer this way joining somone in the worship of Allah

I feel that it is polytheism.  It also occurs in the conventional Shahada.

why dont we say: o our lord give your peace and blessing on our prophet or let o our lord your peace and blessing be on our prophet

Why single out any one prophet?  :)  May ALLAH see fit to bless ALL prophets.

2:136 Say: "We believe in GOD and in what was sent down to us and what was sent down to Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the Patriarchs, and what was given to Moses and Jesus, and what was given to the prophets from their Lord; we do not make a distinction between any of them and to Him we submit."

PICKTHAL: Their prayer therein will be: Glory be to Thee, O Allah! and their greeting therein will be: Peace. And the conclusion of their prayer will be: Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds!

what better way is there to start and end a da'awa, then how the people of paradise will do?

This is a very good point.


I'm always amazed by this ayah:

4:125 And who is better in the system than the one who submits himself to GOD, and he is a good doer, and he follows the creed of Abraham in monotheism? And GOD took Abraham as a friend.

Imagine, ALLAH not only recognizing but befriending a human!  When one meditates on how powerful ALLAH is and how small man is in relation to the universe much less all of creation, this simply strikes me with awe.

May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi

Bigmo

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Re: could someone explaine what being Quranist is about to a newbie
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2012, 12:39:24 AM »
There are too many questions here so i will just answer the first one.

A Quranist is someone who takes their understanding of the deen from the verses of the Quran as they are. As they are meaning he does not accept abrogation of any verses of the Quran. He does not accept anything that contradicts the teachings of the Quran. It really is that simple. The explicit verses of the Quran is where the Quranist usually agree upon and it constitutes their main understanding of the deen. The implicit verses of the Quran is where diversity among the Quranist comes from.

Quranist can be categorized by 4 main groups. Those who take from the Quran only. Those who look into the Quran and previous scriptures. Those who take from the Quran and the rituals that Muslims perform and those who take from the Quran and hadiths that do not contradict the Quran. But all agree that only explicit verses of the Quran are binding. Anyones who breaks the last criteria will find himself rejected by most Quranist.
88:21 22; And so, exhort them your task is only to exhort; you cannot compel them to believe

good logic

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Re: could someone explaine what being Quranist is about to a newbie
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2012, 10:06:07 AM »
I would suggest you try different English/ other language translations of the Koran.

Try: http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/the-journey-and-the-questions-continue/

Or this sites or just google" Koran" Then compare for yourself what you understand from each.

Welcome to - more questions and only GOD has the answer. world.

Peace.
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38:65″ Say:” I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.”

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/