Author Topic: Non penetrative incestuous acts.  (Read 2026 times)

RED

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Non penetrative incestuous acts.
« on: June 11, 2012, 03:39:29 PM »
Salam,

*PLEASE REFRAIN FROM WRITING ANYTHING WHICH IS NOT BASED ON THE QURAN.
*PLEASE IGNORE THE CONTEMPORARY TABOO ABOUT INCEST WHEN REPLYING.
*I AM NOT INTERESTED IN INCEST SINCE I WAS BRAINWASHED THAT IT IS TABOO, I DON'T GET TURNED ON BY LOOKING AT RELATIVES. THIS THREAD IS ONLY FOR DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT OUR RELIGION ALLOWS.
*PLEASE DO NOT DISCUSS ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY THAT SUCH ACTS WILL LEAD TO INCESTUOUS PENETRATIVE SEX. IT IS NOT A FACT, AND THE POSSIBILITY ISN'T GROUNDS FOR FORBIDDING IT.



I hope we can have a mature discussion after I made those things clear.

Now:

As I understand from the Quran, women should cover their bosoms and genitalia in front of non mahrams, while males should only cover their genitalia. (I am not even sure about the genitalia parts...)

Since there is no limitation, we can understand that it is allowed to be fully naked in the sight of siblings, parents, children, etc. It is also allowed to touch and kiss mahrams anywhere (since it is not prohibited) except from the genitalia which is reserved for spouses and MMA(ma malakat aymanukum).

My conclusion is that there is no prohibition of incest as long as there is no penetration (or any kind of stimulation of the genitalia by the touches of the mahram). So kissing, making out, cuddling, and even mutual masturbation with a sibling is not prohibited by the Quran.

Thoughts?

newform

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Re: Non penetrative incestuous acts.
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2012, 04:10:52 PM »

My conclusion is that there is no prohibition of incest as long as there is no penetration (or any kind of stimulation of the genitalia by the touches of the mahram). So kissing, making out, cuddling, and even mutual masturbation with a sibling is not prohibited by the Quran.

Thoughts?
Peace Red, I think you may need to seek psychological counseling immediately.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11.

RED

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Re: Non penetrative incestuous acts.
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2012, 04:24:39 PM »
Peace Red, I think you may need to seek psychological counseling immediately.

And I think you need to learn to read. Sunnis can criticize Quran-Only Muslims by saying that the Quran doesn't prohibit such things.

lordfox

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Re: Non penetrative incestuous acts.
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2012, 04:55:18 PM »
Despite what your thought-master Freud (a simple guess of who might have influenced you in this) would say, being repulsed by the very idea of incest is something that is innate rather than learned over the years. Your argumentation is absolutely, moronically idiotic, so because the quran is silent on something, it means that it is acceptable ? Please set aside the books of the maniac Freud, and do remember that morality is universal, and on this angle, the quran serves only as a "reminder" (zikr).
''from the purlieus of some inhabited city, we bring you, a fervent mindist''

Abdul-Hadi

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Re: Non penetrative incestuous acts.
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2012, 05:06:24 PM »
Greetings and Peace, all  :group:

I feel kind of dirty just posting in such a topic.  <shrugs>  It is no worse than reading it, I suppose.  ;)  There is no stink that stinks forever!

6:151 Say: "Come let me recite what your Lord has made unlawful for you: that you should not set up anything with Him; and do good to your parents; and do not kill your children for fear of poverty, We provide for you and for them; and do not come near lewdness, what is evident of it and what is subtle; and do not take the life which GOD has made forbidden, except in justice. That is what He enjoined you that you may comprehend."

7:33 Say: "My Lord has made unlawful lewdness; what is evident of it and what is subtle; and sin, and aggression without cause, and that you set up partners with GOD that which He has never authorized, and that you say about GOD what you do not know."


Such acts as were mentioned (in said context) fit the very definition of lewd.  A kiss, hug or cuddle need not be sexual in nature; if sexual in nature, the contact/conduct becomes lewd.  If the intent is lewd, it follows that the action is polluted by the intent.

39:18 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom GOD has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.

ALLAH knows best.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi


sushi1992

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Re: Non penetrative incestuous acts.
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2012, 05:19:19 PM »
Despite what your thought-master Freud (a simple guess of who might have influenced you in this) would say, being repulsed by the very idea of incest is something that is innate rather than learned over the years. Your argumentation is absolutely, moronically idiotic, so because the quran is silent on something, it means that it is acceptable ? Please set aside the books of the maniac Freud, and do remember that morality is universal, and on this angle, the quran serves only as a "reminder" (zikr).

I have to agree with Lordfox on this one.. considering Sigmund was the one that came up with the whole penis-envy madness... this doesn't struck me as surprising but please forgive me if you have not read anything about Freud RED and you simply are asking a (very odd) question. I'm sure if you read the context of the Quran when it talks about intimacy with someone and also what Abdul-Hadi has said, you will realise that those actions are not appropriate with those that you mentioned. We must apply common logic here. If we are to only marry the people mentioned (I'm being lazy and not quoting verses but lets just say your family in terms of parents and close relatives are out of the question) and lewdness is seen as a bad thing in general apart from if you have taken an oath with someone then it becomes quite evident... I am curious of how you thought of such a question but however as I say, curiosity killed the cat.. I don't want to be that cat... but I hope you can see my view in terms of what the Quran implies :).

Peace :peace:
Allah created all in the world for you to live and use. Use your knowledge, heart, mind and soul to determine your path in guidance with God, the Designer and Creator, and you shall succeed as a righteous, peaceful, charitable person. Peace on everyone in the world and in the heavens :).

justamuslim

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Re: Non penetrative incestuous acts.
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2012, 05:26:36 PM »


Since there is no limitation, we can understand that it is allowed to be fully naked in the sight of siblings, parents, children, etc. It is also allowed to touch and kiss mahrams anywhere (since it is not prohibited) except from the genitalia which is reserved for spouses and MMA(ma malakat aymanukum).


I am curious to know how you came to this understanding as that is not my understanding.   

youssef4342

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Re: Non penetrative incestuous acts.
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2012, 06:46:36 PM »
Peace be with you as well,
Marriage itself is not allowed between certain family members 4:23, let alone touching.
Masturbation would be in direct violation of 23:6
Anyone who uses their private parts with Anyone other than their spouses/MMA, is transgressing as per 23:7

By your ideology, is pornography ok then? Because there would be no mutual anything and No touching at all...
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es

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Re: Non penetrative incestuous acts.
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2012, 06:54:19 PM »
I never thought I would ever find myself typing these words, but I actually agree with the fox. 
"We have created you, so why do you not believe?" (56:57).

"Every soul will taste death." (3:185; 21:35; 29:57).

"Read your book. You yourself are sufficient as a reckoner against you this Day." (17:14).

Aryan Warrior

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Re: Non penetrative incestuous acts.
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2012, 08:09:58 PM »
Salam,

*PLEASE REFRAIN FROM WRITING ANYTHING WHICH IS NOT BASED ON THE QURAN.
*PLEASE IGNORE THE CONTEMPORARY TABOO ABOUT INCEST WHEN REPLYING.
*I AM NOT INTERESTED IN INCEST SINCE I WAS BRAINWASHED THAT IT IS TABOO, I DON'T GET TURNED ON BY LOOKING AT RELATIVES. THIS THREAD IS ONLY FOR DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT OUR RELIGION ALLOWS.
*PLEASE DO NOT DISCUSS ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY THAT SUCH ACTS WILL LEAD TO INCESTUOUS PENETRATIVE SEX. IT IS NOT A FACT, AND THE POSSIBILITY ISN'T GROUNDS FOR FORBIDDING IT.



I hope we can have a mature discussion after I made those things clear.

Now:

As I understand from the Quran, women should cover their bosoms and genitalia in front of non mahrams, while males should only cover their genitalia. (I am not even sure about the genitalia parts...)

Since there is no limitation, we can understand that it is allowed to be fully naked in the sight of siblings, parents, children, etc. It is also allowed to touch and kiss mahrams anywhere (since it is not prohibited) except from the genitalia which is reserved for spouses and MMA(ma malakat aymanukum).

My conclusion is that there is no prohibition of incest as long as there is no penetration (or any kind of stimulation of the genitalia by the touches of the mahram). So kissing, making out, cuddling, and even mutual masturbation with a sibling is not prohibited by the Quran.

Thoughts?

Sure that may not be Zina as there is no intercourse there but it is Fahisha (lewdness). Lewdness has 3 catagorys. One is homosexuality and rape, another is marrying your family, and the third is getting close to Zina.

What you would plan to do is getting close to Zina. What this means is that just doing the acts that can get you near Zina makes is fahisha. Foreplay and any play with use of genitalia obviously fits in this catagory. Playing with their genitals also fits under foreplay I believe thus why masturbating each other is also not allowed I believe Kissing and hugging aren't sexual though as they don't involve genitials and they are forms of love and affection between family and friends. Course some do use kissing as a lead into sex which that is the sexual type. Course this is my opinion of how it is, and I may be wrong in some forms as in it is stricter than this maybe but regardless we know for a fact that what people call sex in the west that isn't intercourse is what for sure falls under close to Zina. But yeah avoid all sexual contact I say to be safe from fahisha.