Evolution or Intelligent design ?

[Student of Allah]

And what if Evolution is intelligent design?
God clearly uses automated systems in the universe, the orbits of planets, the way light works, in computing terms they are macros, why should evolution be any different? You have to remember, the fleshy human body and the soul are two separate things, the human evolved over millions of years, it was only at a certain point were our souls placed into them, that is the point where we gained sentience.

Shalom Aleikhem,

I kinda don't believe in a soul the way most do. I think of the soul to be a property of the brain, not separate.



Peace
------------ Student of Allah

[AlboDibran]

And what if Evolution is intelligent design?
God clearly uses automated systems in the universe, the orbits of planets, the way light works, in computing terms they are macros, why should evolution be any different? You have to remember, the fleshy human body and the soul are two separate things, the human evolved over millions of years, it was only at a certain point were our souls placed into them, that is the point where we gained sentience.

Salam

you are probably referring to "spirit" correct? the spirit is not the soul. Adam was the only one gifted with ruh(discerning right from wrong/true from false)

our "soul/self" would be the nafs. which even most basic animals in the animal kingdom possess. Allah tells us it is the nafs which makes us act upon our animal tendencies. and the nafs inclines to evil. thats why we are to "purify the nafs"

and we will all be raised in the flesh. Allah makes this clear that we will be raised. and it is easy for the Creator.

back onto the topic i do believe in a guided form of evolution by Allahs design of course. Now there are many facets of theories. regardless, I did not witness the creation initially. but one thing is certain we are still evolving. scientific examination has found that over 5000 years from old skeletons to now that the human brain is SHRINKING. it is evolving. shrinking not as in unintelligent. but the brain/skull is shrinking. which they believe is due to the less usage of certain portions of the brain due to industrialization..

[Jafar]

back onto the topic i do believe in a guided form of evolution by Allahs design of course. Now there are many facets of theories. regardless, I did not witness the creation initially. but one thing is certain we are still evolving. scientific examination has found that over 5000 years from old skeletons to now that the human brain is SHRINKING. it is evolving. shrinking not as in unintelligent. but the brain/skull is shrinking. which they believe is due to the less usage of certain portions of the brain due to industrialization..

But you do witness the creation everyday.. even as we speak..
Or to put it in another sentence.. you do witness 'God's work' everyday..

The whole idea of 'intelligent design' theory and 'resistance' to the "Evolution theory" is due to the fact that human (especially in the west) views God as another human..
He talk, He's angry, He's sad, He need rest etc..
His home or address is on the 'outside' of this universe..
Much worse they used to see God as a "Deity in the sky" looking down below on earth..

Once you understand that the true Supreme Force of All Universes is here, there, everywhere and beyond you'll start to find the absurdity of 'Intelligent Design'... and you'll start to recognize that the word "Nature" / "Natural" and God is nearly synonymous... The "Law of God" is the "Law of Nature", unbreakable by anything...

Thus God (or nature) hasn't finished His (or It) works yet... on this universe... He (or It) still shaping Homo Sapiens and other beings and also other materials to become something new... until He (or It) destroy this universe with it's billion of galaxies....

The kingdom of God come not with observation:
Neither shall they say, Look here! or, look there! for, behold! the kingdom of God is within you!.
-- Iashua Ha Nozirith (Luke: 17:20-21)

Salam / Peace

[AlboDibran]

But you do witness the creation everyday.. even as we speak..
Or to put it in another sentence.. you do witness 'God's work' everyday..

The whole idea of 'intelligent design' theory and 'resistance' to the "Evolution theory" is due to the fact that human (especially in the west) views God as another human..
He talk, He's angry, He's sad, He need rest etc..
His home or address is on the 'outside' of this universe..
Much worse they used to see God as a "Deity in the sky" looking down below on earth..

Once you understand that the true Supreme Force of All Universes is here, there, everywhere and beyond you'll start to find the absurdity of 'Intelligent Design'... and you'll start to recognize that the word "Nature" / "Natural" and God is nearly synonymous... The "Law of God" is the "Law of Nature", unbreakable by anything...

Thus God (or nature) hasn't finished His (or It) works yet... on this universe... He (or It) still shaping Homo Sapiens and other beings and also other materials to become something new... until He (or It) destroy this universe with it's billion of galaxies....

The kingdom of God come not with observation:
Neither shall they say, Look here! or, look there! for, behold! the kingdom of God is within you!.
-- Iashua Ha Nozirith (Luke: 17:20-21)

Salam / Peace

Allah is beyond a created beings comprehension. and please refrain from turning islam to druidism. Do not say of Allah what you have no knowledge. Allah is not nature, he created it, he is not the universe he created it. and all things in this universe including EARTH obey his LAWS. Allah is far beyond anything. and yes INTELLIGENT DESIGN. Allah is the KNOWING, he has all knowledge. Allah is supremely knowledageable therefore the supreme intelligence.

he governs everything and encompasses all.

but I for one do not jump on this band wagon of ascribing things to Allah. Pagans made the mistake of worshipping stars as God. some nature, etc. And Now everyone likes to say Allah is dark matter, Allah is energy.

Allah created all these things. he sent down no word of what his true being is. and he assured the humanity that he is beyond the perception of a created thing. NOTHING is like unto him. that is the fundamental concept of Tawheed. so be careful before calling Allah nature.

salam

[lordfox]

@AlboDibran

I have seen that many times you have rejected these thoughts without consideration. I think really, it is the "isms" that scare you most, and prevent you from considering this idea. Since it seems that you are interested neither in philosophy nor in the phenomenons of quantum physics, I will only quote some verses from the Qu'ran to support this view, take off the veil of religion from your mind, and read the following  :

Say: He is Allah, the One and Only (Ahadun) 114:1

He is the First (Al-Awwalu) and the Last (Al-Aakhiru), and the Apparent (Al-Zāhiru) and the Hidden (Al-Bātinu), and He has knowledge of everything. 57:3

And to Allah belongs the east and the west. So wherever you turn, there is the (Wajh-ullah). Indeed, Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing. 2:115

And He is Allah in the heavens and the earth. He knows your deeds – both secret and open – and knows fully whatever good or evil you do. 6:3

Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The example of His light is like a niche within which is a lamp, the lamp is within glass, the glass as if it were a pearly star lit from a blessed olive tree, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil would almost glow even if untouched by fire. Light upon light. Allah guides to His light whom He wills. And Allah presents examples for the people, and Allah is Knowing of all things. 24:35

[AlboDibran]

@AlboDibran

I have seen that many times you have rejected these thoughts without consideration. I think really, it is the "isms" that scare you most, and prevent you from considering this idea. Since it seems that you are interested neither in philosophy nor in the phenomenons of quantum physics, I will only quote some verses from the Qu'ran to support this view, take off the veil of religion from your mind, and read the following  :

this has nothing to do with religion. no where is Islam a religion. nor did I make the assertion. again the verses does not say Allah is everything. he encompasses everything however. He is everywhere but he is not everything. he created everything. and when the Universe is rolled up on he will endure and remain.

your spreading conjecture of which you have no authority. your claiming im rejecting something but you are ascribing something you dont know. your calling the earth Allah...Allah created the earth and it obeys his laws he places in the heavens. Allah is above and beyond what any one compares him to.

subhanallah at the verses you posted. but Allah is not the creation. after the creation has perished only Allah will remain. the cause to the effect. Allah is the cause. the universe and creation is the affect. PEACE

[IAMOP]

Peace,
You say subhanallah to the verses, great but that is a dismissive tactic. To me it sounds like saying "whoop dee do God said that, now let me tell you what the Real Truth™ is". Forgive me if I am wrong, I see this happen a lot. What you said after is correct yet it doesn't affect the subject matter.

What is your actual logical response/understanding of 24:35? This is split into two parts: literal (Allah IS the light of the heavens and earth) then an example/allegory (the light is like such and such).

Nobody needs to ascribe anything to God because He tells us his essence in that single verse.

[Jafar]

your spreading conjecture of which you have no authority. your claiming im rejecting something but you are ascribing something you dont know. your calling the earth Allah...Allah created the earth and it obeys his laws he places in the heavens. Allah is above and beyond what any one compares him to.

Where did I said that ?
It is you who said that...

From easterner perspective;
They find it ridiculous those who think "The Supreme Force of All Universes" is a person who talk, who 'mould creation' with His hands.. who is above looking below, who design first before working..  etc...

Those who think that "God need time to design first before working/creating" is yet putting another 'human behavior / habits / attributes' to the Supreme Force of All Universes...

gain the verses does not say Allah is everything. he encompasses everything however. He is everywhere but he is not everything. he created everything. and when the Universe is rolled up on he will endure and remain.

I concur to what you said, the true god (whatever name you used to call It or Him) encompasses everything.. he/it's everywhere and He/It is THE EVERYTHING.. and this universe with billions of Galaxies is just perhaps yet another universe from billions of other universes.. And He/It never stop working...

Salam / Peace

[AlboDibran]

Where did I said that ?
It is you who said that...

From easterner perspective;
They find it ridiculous those who think "The Supreme Force of All Universes" is a person who talk, who 'mould creation' with His hands.. who is above looking below, who design first before working..  etc...

Those who think that "God need time to design first before working/creating" is yet putting another 'human behavior / habits / attributes' to the Supreme Force of All Universes...

I concur to what you said, the true god (whatever name you used to call It or Him) encompasses everything.. he/it's everywhere and He/It is THE EVERYTHING.. and this universe with billions of Galaxies is just perhaps yet another universe from billions of other universes.. And He/It never stop working...

Salam / Peace

perhaps you are not understanding me. No where did i say Allah is a man that looks down with hands and legs. that upsurd. Allah is formless. nothing compares to the Creator. Allah surrounds everything be he is not everything. why can you not grasp the gravity of the situation? Allah created everything out of nothing the earth the stars the galaxies that formed from gas and intense heat, all these things matter and anti matter etc are all created properties, everything created will perish..

All the cosmos and many others OBEY Allahs laws that he has place in the universe, gravity, time space etc. all the laws of physics are implemented by the creator.

let me use an example a cheesey one yet it may get the point across. If you have ever watched star wars, "the force" is described much like Allah, a force of intelligence that is everywhere we turn, yet it is unseen, it works through the creation but it is NOT the creation. the force was an immeasurable thing that binded and created all things.

Allah is immeasurable. and everything in creation can be measured, and has divisible quantities. Allah is indivisible. "the one" this is the concept of tawheed.

sadly to many muslims take " i am every where you turn" to literally mean that everything (pantheism) is Allah. in doing so much like suffis and bahais people begin to self glorify and thing THEY are Allah.  shirk in the highest degree. there is no comparison to Allah. that goes for all of creation. what does Allah say? when everything is destroyed all that will remain is his face(metaphorical of course) hence quite clear Allah has no begining and no end. he is not the creation but he surrounds and guides and manages it. he works through the creation.

nothing compares to the Lord of the Worlds.

the universe had a begining and it has an end. and the Quran is quite clear that Allah has no begining and no end. so to even associate these things with Allah and say Allah is the universe is a gross assumption.

Salam

[Jafar]

perhaps you are not understanding me. No where did i say Allah is a man that looks down with hands and legs. that upsurd. Allah is formless. nothing compares to the Creator. Allah surrounds everything be he is not everything. why can you not grasp the gravity of the situation? Allah created everything out of nothing the earth the stars the galaxies that formed from gas and intense heat, all these things matter and anti matter etc are all created properties, everything created will perish..

All the cosmos and many others OBEY Allahs laws that he has place in the universe, gravity, time space etc. all the laws of physics are implemented by the creator.

let me use an example a cheesey one yet it may get the point across. If you have ever watched star wars, "the force" is described much like Allah, a force of intelligence that is everywhere we turn, yet it is unseen, it works through the creation but it is NOT the creation. the force was an immeasurable thing that binded and created all things.

Allah is immeasurable. and everything in creation can be measured, and has divisible quantities. Allah is indivisible. "the one" this is the concept of tawheed.

sadly to many muslims take " i am every where you turn" to literally mean that everything (pantheism) is Allah. in doing so much like suffis and bahais people begin to self glorify and thing THEY are Allah.  shirk in the highest degree. there is no comparison to Allah. that goes for all of creation. what does Allah say? when everything is destroyed all that will remain is his face(metaphorical of course) hence quite clear Allah has no begining and no end. he is not the creation but he surrounds and guides and manages it. he works through the creation.

nothing compares to the Lord of the Worlds.

the universe had a begining and it has an end. and the Quran is quite clear that Allah has no begining and no end. so to even associate these things with Allah and say Allah is the universe is a gross assumption.

Salam

Words has semantic problems... let's do this using math notations...
I hope your math is quite good..

Let:
God = ∞

Which give us:
1 not equal to ∞
2 not equal to ∞
5 not equal to ∞
100 not equal to ∞
0 not equal to ∞
100 < ∞
200 < ∞
∞ = ∞
∞ = 1 X ∞
∞ / ∞ = 1
A set of { 0 .. 1000000000000000000000000000000 } is within { 0 .. ∞ }
1000000000000000000000000000000 < ∞


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity

Salam / Peace