Author Topic: Do you think its about time ? (Read 1253 times)

Student of Allah · « **on:** May 28, 2012, 01:17:43 AM »

Shalom Aleikhem,

I recently came across this youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ6XzDkS7oM&feature=related

These people are discussing if hadiths contradict the Qur'an or each other. This tells me that raising awareness and sharing knowledge and inviting others is working !! Praise due to God. Qur'an alone muslims are the minorities of the minorities... yet we managed to make them discuss this topic.

The bad news being, I remember seeing a video by sheikh Yusuf Estes. He was warning people about Qur'an alone believers with his own made up fantasized facts. By the way, he is so confused... he thinks we all are followers of Rashad Khalifa and Code 19.

I saw another video by Sheikh Feiz...oh God...this guy is the most severely demented anti-Quranist. Just to refute us, he distorts the Qur'an, misquotes, and not to mention, defends authenticity of hadiths using hadiths !!!

What are you thoughts ? How much change have you noticed in the islamic world (media) ? Would you agree that Islamic reformation is near ?

Peace
------------ Student of Allah

es · « **Reply #1 on:** May 28, 2012, 05:14:11 PM »

I want to start a reformation, insh'Allah. I have a plan to distribute literature in my neighbourhood, especially aimed at the youngsters. I am sure I will get the same abuse that the Ahmadiyya get by the Sunni's, but it has to be done. I am not an expert myself, I think it is a journey I have started which won't be complete even if I lived to be a 100 years old, but I just want to get people thinking, to take the first steps on to this path, insh'Allah, and then it is all down to Allah.

Student of Allah · « **Reply #2 on:** May 29, 2012, 01:18:41 PM »

Quote from: es on May 28, 2012, 05:14:11 PM

I want to start a reformation, insh'Allah. I have a plan to distribute literature in my neighbourhood, especially aimed at the youngsters. I am sure I will get the same abuse that the Ahmadiyya get by the Sunni's, but it has to be done. I am not an expert myself, I think it is a journey I have started which won't be complete even if I lived to be a 100 years old, but I just want to get people thinking, to take the first steps on to this path, insh'Allah, and then it is all down to Allah.

Shalom Aleikhem,

If it wasn't life threatening to deal with traditional muslims, I would go for a documentary where I interview the scholars based on Qur'an. What they say about it, and whats actually written inside it. For example, would it be a million dollar moment to capture the face of these scholars in video while they are shown how they misquote things like "take what the messenger gives you and abstain form what he forbids" to promote hadiths ?

Although such documentary would be eye opener for those who genuinly seek truth (not the sheep), it would be extremely dangerous thing to do.

You carry on with your journey doing your best, I will do my best on my journey. The rest is up to God.

Peace
----------- Student of Allah

good logic · « **Reply #3 on:** May 29, 2012, 01:34:36 PM »

29:69″ As for those who strive in our cause, We will surely guide them in Our path. Definitely, GOD is with the (true) believers.”

Keep trying ,even though GOD tells us :

13:31″Even if a Koran ( or any scripture from GOD) caused mountains to move or the earth to tear asunder. or the dead to speak. ( The majority of people will not believe in it!) Those who believe will need to realise that if GOD willed, HE could have guided all the people.( But every individual needs to make that decision by himself, GOD will not force you to believe; Even though) GOD controls all things.The disbelievers ( and idol worshippers) will continue to suffer disasters as a consequence of their own works. ( and bad decisions! If you do not want GOD -your creator- to be part of your life, do not blame HIM for your disasters!) Or have disasters strike close to them. ( because of what others, close to them ,are doing- the decisions they are taking-) Until GOD s promise is fulfilled. GOD will never change the predetermined destiny.( Every human( Except few?) is allowed a lifetime- Short or long- to make their own decision!)

All we can do is warn. Keep calling to the Lord.

Then it is up to HIM.
Peace

es · « **Reply #4 on:** May 29, 2012, 07:02:14 PM »

Aleikhem shalom "Student of Allah",

Atah medaber ‘ivrit?

Student of Allah · « **Reply #5 on:** May 29, 2012, 07:20:25 PM »

Quote from: es on May 29, 2012, 07:02:14 PM

Aleikhem shalom "Student of Allah",

Atah medaber ‘ivrit?

Shalom Aleikhem eh,

Lo, Ani Lo Medaber !! $:-\$ Dont ask me why.

Peace

------------ Student of Allah

ayman · « **Reply #6 on:** May 29, 2012, 08:21:56 PM »

Quote from: Student of Allah on May 28, 2012, 01:17:43 AM

I recently came across this youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ6XzDkS7oM&feature=related
These people are discussing if hadiths contradict the Qur'an or each other. This tells me that raising awareness and sharing knowledge and inviting others is working !! Praise due to God. Qur'an alone muslims are the minorities of the minorities... yet we managed to make them discuss this topic.
The bad news being, I remember seeing a video by sheikh Yusuf Estes. He was warning people about Qur'an alone believers with his own made up fantasized facts. By the way, he is so confused... he thinks we all are followers of Rashad Khalifa and Code 19.
I saw another video by Sheikh Feiz...oh God...this guy is the most severely demented anti-Quranist. Just to refute us, he distorts the Qur'an, misquotes, and not to mention, defends authenticity of hadiths using hadiths !!!
What are you thoughts ? How much change have you noticed in the islamic world (media) ? Would you agree that Islamic reformation is near ?
Peace
------------ Student of Allah

The Quran alone movement has been growing at an accelerated pace over the past 20 years. Back in the 80s I used to be the only one I know who rejected hadiths and only followed the Quran. Now it is very widespread. In Egypt it gained momentum after a well respected religious thinker, Dr. Mustafa Mahmud, rejected Hadiths starting with those promoting idolatorous intercession. Now this topic often shows up on talk shows. The only issue is that some of the figures associated with the movement are also promoting some form or another of Code 19 numerology. This opens them up for being shredded to pieces since all numerology is inevitably full of holes and inconsistencies.

Peace,

Ayman

Student of Allah · « **Reply #7 on:** May 29, 2012, 08:32:05 PM »

Quote from: ayman on May 29, 2012, 08:21:56 PM

The Quran alone movement has been growing at an accelerated pace over the past 20 years. Back in the 80s I used to be the only one I know who rejected hadiths and only followed the Quran. Now it is very widespread. In Egypt it gained momentum after a well respected religious thinker, Dr. Mustafa Mahmud, rejected Hadiths starting with those promoting idolatorous intercession. Now this topic often shows up on talk shows. The only issue is that some of the figures associated with the movement are also promoting some form or another of Code 19 numerology. This opens them up for being shredded to pieces since all numerology is inevitably full of holes and inconsistencies.

Peace,

Ayman

Shalom Aleikhem,

Although I do not have any evidence for this, but I believe that decent number of Qur'an alone believers were there in every generation. It is just that, the world is so much more connected since the 80's. Now, a person who notices the true nature of Hadith can actually google and find other people who noticed and wrote about it. A person who read the Qur'an and came to the saw for her/himself that only Qur'an is to be followed, even they can find like minded people over the internet. This does not demonstrate that now the numbers have increased, but that now there is a social-network between minorities. (Not disagreeing that numbers have increased over time)

If only code 19 and RK would not be confused with the rest of us. The thing is, even if those numerology things are genuine, one does not need them to see why Qur'an alone is the way....simply reading the Qur'an without injecting hadiths demonstrates it.

Peace
------------- Student of Allah

IAMOP · « **Reply #8 on:** May 30, 2012, 06:51:41 AM »

If anything there was a veil of fear/social isolation that is fast losing its power. Say there were 10 quran adherents in a group of 100 "Muslims" the nature of the majority is to conceal any opposition to the system by calling people disbelievers; punishable by death. So each of those 10 people would feel as if they were 1 in 100 even though the truth is very different.

"Although I do not have any evidence for this, but I believe that decent number of Qur'an alone believers were there in every generation."

I agree with that because it's just the natural truth. Anyone honest to themselves who cares about the hereafter will naturally find this path because it's literally God's path.

You don't actually need any evidence aside from the quran. Keep in mind:

[56:77] Most surely it is an honored Quran,
[56:78] In a book that is protected
[56:79] None shall touch it save the purified ones.

Anyone can attest to this: if you interpret the quran through any other framework but the absolute truth suddenly there is a total veil over its meanings. Notice that if you try to debate for instance, the legitimacy of hadeeth, people will always tell you to contact a scholar. They will never be able to answer for themselves because the book becomes totally cloudy & contradictory when you try to bend it to a preconception.

The reformation is inevitable, it's a snowball rolling down a hill. Doesn't matter how big the snowball is now, it's going.

[2:148] And every one has a direction to which he should turn, therefore hasten to (do) good works; wherever you are, Allah will bring you all together; surely Allah has power over all things.

good logic · « **Reply #9 on:** May 30, 2012, 11:29:55 AM »

Did this momentum of rejecting hadith ... start with RK?
In fact some of the Koran was not understood until after RK?
Of course all this process is guided by the "Author of the Koran".
For example:
Who is the messenger of 3:81 ?
Here are some translations of RK;
( I put my own words in between and in brackets!)

Everything is fine without God? With GOD and “others”? With GOD ALONE?

23:62 ” We never burden anyone beyond their means, and We record the truth ( about each individual). No one will suffer injustice.”

( Does everyone know this? Should they?)

23:63 ” Because their minds are oblivious to this, they commit works that do not conform with justice; Their works are evil.”

23:64 ” Then when disaster stikes them, they complain.”

23:64 ” Do not complain now; ( you decided to go it alone, you do not need GOD) You have given up all help from us now.”

( Totally loyal to God? or Independent from GOD? You choose? )

23:66 ” My proofs ( that the Scripture is from GOD) have been presented to you, but you turned back on your heels

23:67 ” You were too arrogant to accept them, and you defiantly disregarded them.”

( What proof? Which Scripture? When?…)

23:68 ” Why do they not reflect on this Scripture? Do they not realise that they ( this 21 st century generation) have received something never attained by their parents?”

( Is there a Scientific/Mathematical proof ? How? )

23:69 ” Have they failed to recognise their messenger? ( The messenger of the Covenant -0f Malachi Chapter 3- And Of 3:81.) Is this why they are disregarding him.”
Of course there are many more throughout the scripture.
Some may claim they have different explanations or they know Arabic better. However the Teacher of the Koran, your Lord and mine says HE explains the Koran:

41:44″ If We made it a non- Arabic Koran,( scripture) they would have said why did it come down in that language.( Whatever language GOD chooses, there is always those who want it in a different one?) Whether it is Arabic or non-Arabic ( It happens to be Arabic because the messenger was Arab! GOD sent the Torah in Hebrew, the language of the children of Israel and Jesus spoke Aramaic ,so the Gospel came in Aramaic) Say:” For those who believe, it is a guide and healing; As for those who disbelieve, they will be deaf and blind to it ( Even if they were pure Arabs!) as if they were addressed from far away.” ( Nowadays no language is a barrier! The message is more important than the language! More importantly if GOD is the author, HE guides with HIS words those who choose to be guided?)

It is about time, the believer reflects on every word of GOD , otherwise:

41:41″ Those who have rejected the Koran s proof ( From this generation) have also rejected an honourable book.” (A message from your Creator!)

Your Creator does not compromise HIS words.
Peace

Jafar · « **Reply #10 on:** May 31, 2012, 11:23:17 AM »

Quote from: Student of Allah on May 28, 2012, 01:17:43 AM

What are you thoughts ? How much change have you noticed in the islamic world (media) ? Would you agree that Islamic reformation is near ?

It's a normal reaction by somebody who are trying to defend their interest and turf..
Yet judging by history.. if the trend continues.. and all of their efforts of 'demonizing / satanizing' anyone who they considered as a threat to their well being and power failed.. They will escalate to take more drastic approach, such as: terrorizing, kidnapping, torturing and murder..

Islam will not be 'reformed'... as Islam by itself is a trademark owned by them... People will leave Islam in droves... definitely it's just a matter of time.. All falsehood are doomed to fail...

Salam / Peace

good logic · « **Reply #11 on:** May 31, 2012, 12:39:09 PM »

Peace Jafar

Islam has lost its real meaning. Originally it was not a "religion!". It simply meant " submission to the Lord".

A way of life of accepting only one authority " The Creator Alone"

Hopefully, those who leave Islam " the religion " in droves, will join the real" Islam" ( and submit to their creator) in droves.

This will fulfil chapter 110 of the scripture. Droves from this generation and future generations to come.

May the Lord guide all those who seek HIM Alone.
Peace

Jafar · « **Reply #12 on:** May 31, 2012, 08:22:52 PM »

Quote from: good logic on May 31, 2012, 12:39:09 PM

Peace Jafar

Islam has lost its real meaning. Originally it was not a "religion!". It simply meant " submission to the Lord".

A way of life of accepting only one authority " The Creator Alone"

Hopefully, those who leave Islam " the religion " in droves, will join the real" Islam" ( and submit to their creator) in droves.

This will fulfil chapter 110 of the scripture. Droves from this generation and future generations to come.

May the Lord guide all those who seek HIM Alone.
Peace

Yup the similitude is like this...

God tells people to be honest...
honest become a religion complete with temple, rites and priests and it turns into Honest.

Soon people start to forget what Honest really mean and they started to say things like:
1. In Honest, how should we do our prayer?
2. According to Honest, Is it allowable to clean our hands using antiseptic?
3. Which authority that you have to teach Honest to the people?
4. Those who dare to say bad things about the holy book of Kilikili is an enemy of Honest and must be put to death.
5. Convert to Honest by saying "I bear testify that there are only two testicles"...
6. In order to be a truly Honest one need to go to Hawaii and perform the hula hula rites at its beach
7. Honest is a threat to our national security..
etc.. etc.. etc..

Salam / Peace

Lena · « **Reply #13 on:** May 31, 2012, 11:21:19 PM »

God tells people to be honest...
honest become a religion complete with temple, rites and priests and it turns into Honest.
Soon people start to forget what Honest really mean and they started to say things like:
1. In Honest, how should we do our prayer?
2. According to Honest, Is it allowable to clean our hands using antiseptic?
3. Which authority that you have to teach Honest to the people?
4. Those who dare to say bad things about the holy book of Kilikili is an enemy of Honest and must be put to death.
5. Convert to Honest by saying "I bear testify that there are only two testicles"...
6. In order to be a truly Honest one need to go to Hawaii and perform the hula hula rites at its beach
7. Honest is a threat to our national security..
etc.. etc.. etc..

Are there any positives to organised religion?

youssef4342 · « **Reply #14 on:** June 01, 2012, 10:39:15 AM »

Peace be with you guys as well,

Yes i myself have tried to spread the message by passing out flyers and talking to muslims on the streets

A version of this flyer:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwFbhXgE0EorVWtZVmRsdjNNWEk/edit

or interviewing muslims:
-"Asalamu alaikum
-Are you sunni Muslim by any chance?
-Have you ever heard of following the Quran alone?
-You should research about it"

90% + of muslims i've talked to seemingly have never heard about following the Quran alone.

Jafar · « **Reply #15 on:** June 01, 2012, 05:14:17 PM »

Quote from: youssef4342 on June 01, 2012, 10:39:15 AM

90% + of muslims i've talked to seemingly have never heard about following the Quran alone.

Due to the absurdity of Islam (tm) religion, or any other religion for that matter, especially semitic originated religion (Xtians, Judaism). Many people have choose to not talking or even thinking about anything that's being associated with religion. Including Quran...

On the back of their mind there's something like "I think Islam is absurd but I better kill that thought away otherwise I'll end up in hell for all eternity as told by the imams or even worse the imams started to yell at me.. that will be far worse than being plunged into hell actually... well I just follow it and everything will be ok for me"

The same case goes for other member of semitic religion.. (Xtians, Judaism etc..)

Additional interesting fact: 95% of Xtians and Muslim (tm) that I met doesn't even know or aware that trinity is nowhere to be found within the Gospel or Bible..

Better follow it just like the priest and imam said.. and not to think about it... or at least just keep silent.. I don't want to talk about religion or anything that associated with it..

That's what's happening on their mind...

Salam / Peace

Lena · « **Reply #16 on:** June 01, 2012, 09:49:47 PM »

Peace Youssef
What has been the response of Sunni muslims when you give them the flyer?
Do you have an Arabic version of your flyer?

Zulf · « **Reply #17 on:** June 02, 2012, 06:57:11 AM »

Quote from: Jafar on May 31, 2012, 08:22:52 PM

God tells people to be honest...
honest become a religion complete with temple, rites and priests and it turns into Honest.

Soon people start to forget what Honest really mean and they started to say things like:
1. In Honest, how should we do our prayer?
2. According to Honest, Is it allowable to clean our hands using antiseptic?
3. Which authority that you have to teach Honest to the people?
4. Those who dare to say bad things about the holy book of Kilikili is an enemy of Honest and must be put to death.
5. Convert to Honest by saying "I bear testify that there are only two testicles"...
6. In order to be a truly Honest one need to go to Hawaii and perform the hula hula rites at its beach
7. Honest is a threat to our national security..
etc.. etc.. etc..

I just love the way you put it!

I wonder why people have such a strong tendency for hole digging and fence building? Hole digging and fence building is the act of creating and enhancing separation. Whenever there is some holistic, universal thing, then someone has been there digging an exclusive hole to accommodate the club members. People can't stand unity.. but must have separation in every type and form..... race, wealth, religion, ethnicity, language, nation, education, IQ, ancestry.... Remarkable. Unity is reached going up, while separation is reached by going down. Anything "sub-" is per definition both lower and with separation. Odd indeed that people just loooove separation. It's sick. It's a disease. Cheers n peace

DaresBears · « **Reply #18 on:** June 04, 2012, 03:53:16 AM »

I believe Qur'an alone Islam is rapidly spreading, certainly a sidelining of hadith is occurring. Mostly with western Muslims, the Qur'an is forward and promotes freedom but the hadith do quite the opposite, most Sunni Muslims that i know say they ignore any hadith which contradicts the Qur'an, which technically makes them followers of Tolu-e-Islam, a form of Qur'an alone. I think extreme states such as Saudi Arabia do more to push people are from hadith Islam to liberal Qur'an Islam than to make more hadithers.

justamuslim · « **Reply #19 on:** June 04, 2012, 04:55:41 AM »

Quote from: good logic on May 29, 2012, 01:34:36 PM

29:69″ As for those who strive in our cause, We will surely guide them in Our path. Definitely, GOD is with the (true) believers.”

Keep trying ,even though GOD tells us :

13:31″Even if a Koran ( or any scripture from GOD) caused mountains to move or the earth to tear asunder. or the dead to speak. ( The majority of people will not believe in it!) Those who believe will need to realise that if GOD willed, HE could have guided all the people.( But every individual needs to make that decision by himself, GOD will not force you to believe; Even though) GOD controls all things.The disbelievers ( and idol worshippers) will continue to suffer disasters as a consequence of their own works. ( and bad decisions! If you do not want GOD -your creator- to be part of your life, do not blame HIM for your disasters!) Or have disasters strike close to them. ( because of what others, close to them ,are doing- the decisions they are taking-) Until GOD s promise is fulfilled. GOD will never change the predetermined destiny.( Every human( Except few?) is allowed a lifetime- Short or long- to make their own decision!)

All we can do is warn. Keep calling to the Lord.

Then it is up to HIM.
Peace

Which English translation is the above? I like to send my relatives back home English translation of the Koran. So far, Ahmed Ali seems to be best.

good logic · « **Reply #20 on:** June 04, 2012, 05:00:56 AM »

Try both :
The monotheist translation ( you find it in this site)

Submission sites. Rashad translation. ( Google, submission islam)

Remember to stay loyal to your creator.
Peace

Mr.Q · « **Reply #21 on:** June 04, 2012, 01:44:50 PM »

Quote from: justamuslim on June 04, 2012, 04:55:41 AM

Which English translation is the above? I like to send my relatives back home English translation of the Koran. So far, Ahmed Ali seems to be best.

That is Rashad Khalifa's translation with a lot of (....) added in.

I like Edips Reformist translation. It's a different take on some things, very similar to Free Minds translation as Layth was involved in it and there is a lot of other extra information and opinions on verses and meanings and cross references to Biblical stories. It's interesting some of his views and understandings on some issues. It's worth having in your collection for comparative studies none the less.