Whats your understanding on Qurans teachings on gay women and men?

[Ervin]

Peace.

4:15 And those of your women who commit lewdness, you shall bring four witnesses over them from among you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death terminates their lives, or God makes for them a way out.

How do you explain this verse? Is the word  house used for prison?

And
4:16  And the two men who commit it from among you, you shall trouble them. If they repent and amend, then leave them alone. God is Redeemer, Merciful.

Why is it lesser punishment for men then woman?

Thanks

[Ervin]

Can a moderator please remove this thread to Questions about the Quran forum?

Thanks

[newform]

My understanding is that God made it natural to be heterosexual. However I don't take my so far limited knowledge of Quran to admonish homosexuals. Id rather let homosexuals be interested in Quran and read it for themselves and God willing they can assess their own sex life. Which can be contraversial as I understand that there are gay muslims who have no problems with their life and Quran. And then there are actual people who are born with both male and female sex organs so how do you know if they are homosexual based on the gender of their spouse? So in conclusion I don't feel its my calling to debate homosexuality andQuran verses. This is between God and individual. Peace

[uq]

Peace Ervin,

Thanks for your post, I've been thinking about this issue lately.

I think newform is right, it's best to invite everyone to the path of God and let them make their own decision.

After studying the Quran, it is my belief that homosexuality is condemned. However, it is a private sin, that is to say, homosexuality doesn't infringe upon the rights of others, as opposed to murder and theft.

It must also be noted that in 4:16, many translators insert the word "men" at the beginning of the verse, but it does not occur in the original Arabic Quran; it is simply an assumption of many translators, an assupmtion which I believe to be unwarranted.

Peace

[SaifulAli]

It's the same as those born under compulsive liar characteristics or was born in royalty, its a test specific for him or her. What God revealed in the Quran is just this: worship your God and do good works.... The rest is just commentary. Amin!

[youssef4342]

Peace be with you as well.

Pondering over the Example of Lot, Homosexuality, is crossing the lines/transgressing
 
“Lot said to his people, "You commit such an Abomination; no one in the world has done it before!You practice sex with the men, instead of the women. Indeed, you are a Transgressing people." (7:80-811)

(Yes Homosexuality might have occurred before the people of Lot, however, Lot's people would be the first community as a whole to practice homosexuality as a big group)

“Lot said to his people, "How could you commit such an Abomination, publicly, while you see?You practice sex with the men, lustfully, instead of the women. Indeed, you are Ignorant people." (27:54-55)

"Do you have sex with the males, of all the people? and You FORSAKE the wives that your Lord has created for you! Indeed, you are Transgressing people." (26:165-166)
 
“He said, "I am of your act, one those who are short (e.g refrain from your actions) ” (26:168)
 “His people came rushing; they had grown accustomed to their sinful acts. He said, "O my people, These are my Daughters [Females], they are Purer for you . So revere God and don’t embarrass me with my guests. Is there not one reasonable man among you?" (11:78)
 
“His people responded by saying, "Drive them out from your town. They are people who wish to be PURE." (7:82)
 
“Further discussions”
1)In order to have lawful intimate relationships, one has to be married, or possess a “concubine” figure (23:6, 70:30)
2) The word for spouse would be mostly ZAWJ. The word would refer to the Opposite gender
3) It wouldn't matter what you are attracted to, because you would need to be chaste 23:5


Moreover in  uq, in 4:16, it is talking about men. There is a feminine and a masculine gender of words in Arabic, and in 4:16 it uses the Masculine gender,

I think Arabic has 12 personal pronouns, such is the accuracy of the Arabic language.

Person Singular Dual Plural
1st anā (أنا) naḥnu (نحن)
2nd-->Masculine anta (أنت) antum (أنتم)
---> Feminine anti (أنت) antumā (أنتما) antunna (أنتنّ)
3rd-->Masculine huwa (هو) humā (هما) hum (هم)
--->feminine hiya (هي) hunna (هنّ)

Enclitic forms of personal pronouns (الضمائر المتصلة aḍ-ḍamāʾir ul-muttaṣila(tu)) are affixed to various parts of speech

Person Singular Dual Plural
1st -nī/-ī/-ya ـي - nā ـنا

2nd---->masculine- ka ـك -kumā ـكما -kum ـكم
----->feminine -ki ـك -kunna ـكن

3rd --->masculine -hu/-hi ـه -humā/-himā ـهما -hum/-him ـهم
----->feminine -hā ـها -hunna/-hinna ـهن

[uq]

Peace Youssef,

Thanks for your post.

In Arabic, if there is a group of people, all but one of whom are females, and one male, then we use the male-gendered pronoun. This applies to any number of people, whether it be 9 females and 1 male, or 1 female and 1 male (as is the case in 4:16).

The implication of this rule is that the relative pronoun in 4:16 can refer to either 2 males, or a male and a female.

I don't, currently, exclude either.

[huruf]

4.15 and 4.16 have nothing to do with homosexuality.

Salaam

[DaresBears]

I think Homosexuality is wrong and a sin because it's not how we're supposed to be. However in accordance with the Qur'an i don't think they should be punished, judgment will be left with God.

[youssef4342]

well, DaresBears
4:16 might refer to punishing homosexuals.

Moreover:
Ponder over the use of the term Fahisha.
Both Same-sex intimacy AND Marrying a woman that was previously married to your biological father are deemed a FAHISHA (7:80 & 4:22).
Now from a superficial level, marying a woman that was previously married to your father does NOT seem like "fahisha" at all. Yet in God's sight is not only a fahisha, it is something disgusting/hated!

If God is so restrictive as to not allow this between a hetero-sex couple as that, do you not think he will restrict intimate relationships between same-sex couples? After all, both same-sex intimacy and marrying the previous wives of your father are called by the same term, a Fahisha (7:80 & 4:22).

And sure, you might find both of these intimate acts in nature, and on a superficial level, they might not seem wrong at all... However, that might not be so in God's sight"

".... you thought it was insignificant, however in the sight of God,  it was tremendous" (24:15)
"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD weighs the hearts." (proverbs 21:2)