RK: Follow the Message or the Messenger?

[jtc]

Peace be upon you all.

I'm sorry if my question were not clear; sometimes I find it hard to communicate my thoughts and feelings on this specific subject.

I honestly want to approach this objectively as possible. For so long I feel like I have been saying things that are not from the Qur'an and have basically defended it by saying "God's messenger said ..." Going back to square one and re-examining Rashad's claim is something I am in the process of doing. What I have noticed over the last few months is that he made some very bizarre, contradictory claims in his newsletters and his different translations.

I do agree that as sincere seekers of the truth we can have wrong understandings of the Qur'an from time to time, and we may even be very strong in our stances only to find out later that we were wrong. As pointed out, and what is the main issue for me is that when a person says "God sent me to tell you..." and they are wrong or they say "According to God ... will happen" and those prophecies never materialized, then what can be said about such a person? There is no doubt in my mind that God is the Teacher of the Qur'an (55:2, 75:19) and that messengers and prophets simply deliver God's messages by reciting His words and proclamations. So, when it comes to messengers making mistakes because of their human weaknesses and shortcomings, where do we draw the line? As it has been pointed out I do believe intention has something to do with it, and we cannot jump to conclusions and say what a person's intention was if they do not state it. God knows the truth of every matter. However, what "mistakes" would violate the characteristics of a messenger of God and disqualify them from holding that title?

I hope this is a little better than my previous post. Thank you for your inputs thus far.

Peace.

[Student of Allah]

Brother what we are doing now and what RK was doing is exact same thing. Stop being a hypocrite. When RK learnt anything new he always changed his view. THIS IS A FACT. You don't know whether OR not if he was sincere because you are not God. And RK never claimed to be God. Bring me solid prove that he wasn't sincere. And you never be able to produce this since you cannot read minds and you have no knowledge of the unseen 

ARE YOU GOD STUDENT OF ALLAH? CAN YOU TELL FOR A CERTAINTY  IF I AND OTHERS ON THIS FORUM ARE SINCERE OR NOT??? THERE IS NO PROOF FOR YOUR CLAIM THAT RK WASN'T SINCERE!

Why are you asking me "Give me one single evidence that RK is GOD" He never said that he was GOD. What does that have to do with anything??? All he did was claim to be one of God's messengers! There is only one God , one creator. What I think you have a problem with is that you can't believe in a human messenger other than those that are written in a book. If this the case then I am sorry for you.

Peace,

Kevin

Shalom Aleikhem Kevin,

I would advise you to go back and read my last post. Specially where I quote myself and highlight a statement I made.

And the reason I asked about RK=GOD thing is to demonstrate to you "Straw Man Argument". Which you were doing. If you go back to my post and re-read it, you will see what I am saying.

To set things straight, for OBVIOUS REASONS, I do not know what lies in the heart of an individual. However, this does not give people the license to get away with any kind of lie in the name of God. I have already stated in my previous post that I would discuss the RK issue in separate thread, so let us not flood this thread.

And for the last time, please refrain from putting thoughts into my head and words into my mouth. What my idea of a messenger is, you can simply ask me. You don't need to make sh*t up and then refute your own made up sh*t. That by definition is the "Straw Man" style of argument. You are making things up about me, and then refuting them. I hope you arent doing that deliberately.

Instead of seeing it only through your eyes, why don't you try and see RK from my view. What is your opinion about Mirza Ghulam Ahmed ? (if you know him) For me the answer is same, either deluded( but sincere) or liar. 

In any case, I do not wish to discuss it further for now. You and I will be judged on the merits of our deeds by God, same goes for RK and Mirza Ghulam Ahmed. 

Peace
------------ Student of Allah

[lordfox]

This is getting absolutely hilarious (and ridiculous).

@StudentOfAllah
Good luck staying calm my friend.

[Bahman]

Shalom Aleikhem,

Thank you very much for sharing your view. My current view on 3:81 would be more like:
1. Gabriel is the one
2. Muhammad is the one

However, I must inform you that the second option is filled with alot of unsolved issues. I just kept it as a consideration, the share between these 2 views would be Gabriel(99.99999999%) and Muhammad (0.00000001%). One can totally ignore Muhammad from my list.

Dont get me wrong, I do understand that messengers are people like you and me. However, what I do not expect them to do is to preach falsehood and non-Qur'anic materials. They may or may not have opinions like we do, but we do not go around preaching our opinions in the name of God.

Just as I wouldn't expect Moses to build a dummy calf in support of the inclinations of the jews and preach them to take it as a symbol of God, I would not expect a messenger to preach falsehood.

Anyways, those are my views. You are entitled to your views. As long as we have it in us to become a better person, inshallah, we will meet in paradise.

Peace
-------------- Student of Allah 

peace
Do not move your tongue to hasten it.
It is we who will collect it into Quran.
Once we recite it, you shall follow such a Quran.
Then it is we who will explain it.75-16-19

[Student of Allah]

peace
Do not move your tongue to hasten it.
It is we who will collect it into Quran.
Once we recite it, you shall follow such a Quran.
Then it is we who will explain it.75-16-19

Shalom Aleikhem,

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

Peace
----------- Student of Allah

[Philosopher]

Brother what we are doing now and what RK was doing is exact same thing. Stop being a hypocrite. When RK learnt anything new he always changed his view. THIS IS A FACT. You don't know whether OR not if he was sincere because you are not God. And RK never claimed to be God. Bring me solid prove that he wasn't sincere. And you never be able to produce this since you cannot read minds and you have no knowledge of the unseen 

ARE YOU GOD STUDENT OF ALLAH? CAN YOU TELL FOR A CERTAINTY  IF I AND OTHERS ON THIS FORUM ARE SINCERE OR NOT??? THERE IS NO PROOF FOR YOUR CLAIM THAT RK WASN'T SINCERE!

Why are you asking me "Give me one single evidence that RK is GOD" He never said that he was GOD. What does that have to do with anything??? All he did was claim to be one of God's messengers! There is only one God , one creator. What I think you have a problem with is that you can't believe in a human messenger other than those that are written in a book. If this the case then I am sorry for you.

Peace,

Kevin

Rashad was either extremely delusional or a liar. he claimed to have met the prophets and atleast in my view tried to edit gods word by removing ayats

he also seemed dishonest by not sharing his errored trials while looking for code 19 for years. The fact that he removed ayats and used hadith as justification that the ayats were not divine seems extremely hypocritical