General Issues / Questions > General Issues / Questions
"God" vs Allah
lordfox:
--- Quote from: Ruuube on May 17, 2012, 09:04:29 AM ---The Universe as we know it is understood to have a starting point, this isn't Muslim or religious peoples ideology, this is the accepted scientific theory.
--- End quote ---
Please understand that the big bang is not a fact and is not accepted by many scientists. Let us leave physics aside and concentrate on philosophy.
--- Quote from: Ruuube on May 17, 2012, 09:04:29 AM ---As for your 'ultimate philosophical flaw', it really isn't. If God was created, then you have to ask what created that which created God. Logically speaking, it has to end somewhere.
--- End quote ---
To say that ''God'' always was, is to say that the possibility of something always existing is philosophically correct and plausible. As the question has no end, occam's razor should be applied, and the easiest solution may be the answer: that we are all part of an ever-living energy.
What I propose is simple, instead of seeing Islam as a monotheistic philosophy, I see it as a monopanentheistic philosophy.
--- Quote from: Ruuube on May 17, 2012, 02:24:26 PM ---It is either that you write them in such a manner that they would be interpreted differently than you intended, or you would like me to stay away because I disagree with you.
In any case, I'm out. Sorry to have troubled you, brother.
--- End quote ---
Please excuse my earlier tone, it is because in life I am always confronted with prideful people who believe that they have the truth on every subject and never take the time to analyze anything, which is very frustrating. Again, I am very sorry.
Ruuube:
--- Quote from: lordfox on May 17, 2012, 02:26:56 PM ---Please understand that the big bang is not a fact and is not accepted by many scientists. Let us leave physics aside and concentrate on philosophy.
To say that ''God'' always was, is to say that the possibility of something always existing is philosophically correct and plausible. As the question has no end, occam's razor should be applied, and the easiest solution may be the answer: that we are all part of an ever-living energy.
What I propose is simple, instead of seeing Islam as a monotheistic philosophy, I see it as a monopanentheistic philosophy.
Please excuse my earlier tone, it is because in life I am always confronted with prideful people who believe that they have the truth on every subject and never take the time to analyze anything, which is very frustrating. Again, I am very sorry.
--- End quote ---
Your apology is accepted. I can understand your frustrations.
To begin with, applying existing and altogether human philosophies to a being that we, as humans struggle to conceptualise -- even with said being contacting us to inform us of his nature, is a little illogical. For example, God is perfect. There is nothing on earth that by human rationale we would call perfect, yet Allah calls our forms perfect. Does this mean God is wrong?
Continuing with your application of Occams Razor, I agree, the most simple plausible solution should be applied. However, you cannot ignore that which is evident to simplify further. That would not be Occams Razor at all.
Then there is your position of monothiestic pantheism. From the language used in the Qur'an, assuming we both agree Allah is the author of the book, I understand that it is not that everything is God, rather everything belongs to God. Do you see what I mean? I am not well versed enough in pantheism, but from what I understand the natural world as it is, looking at it from a pantheistic basis, would not make sense.
lordfox:
--- Quote from: Ruuube on May 17, 2012, 03:53:00 PM ---To begin with, applying existing and altogether human philosophies to a being that we, as humans struggle to conceptualise -- even with said being contacting us to inform us of his nature, is a little illogical. For example, God is perfect. There is nothing on earth that by human rationale we would call perfect, yet Allah calls our forms perfect. Does this mean God is wrong?
--- End quote ---
Allah calls our form perfect, we ought to keep in mind that this perfectness is exclusive to something, that is, in this instance, to form. And yes, there is something that we could call perfect, the absolute life harmony of everything that exists.
--- Quote from: Ruuube on May 17, 2012, 03:53:00 PM ---Then there is your position of monothiestic pantheism. From the language used in the Qur'an, assuming we both agree Allah is the author of the book, I understand that it is not that everything is God, rather everything belongs to God. Do you see what I mean? I am not well versed enough in pantheism, but from what I understand the natural world as it is, looking at it from a pantheistic basis, would not make sense.
--- End quote ---
I typed mono-panentheism and not mono-pantheism.
Ruuube:
--- Quote from: lordfox on May 17, 2012, 03:56:13 PM ---I typed mono-panentheism and not mono-pantheism.
--- End quote ---
Sorry, I misread.
For this discussion to go anywhere, I'd need to understand how you subscribe to mono-panentheism better, many people have many different takes on it.
shaban:
--- Quote from: lordfox on May 17, 2012, 02:26:56 PM ---To say that ''God'' always was, is to say that the possibility of something always existing is philosophically correct and plausible.
--- End quote ---
maybe, but only if you leave physics aside. and u cant leave it. considering issues like increasing entrophy, fine tuned universe etc, your ever living energy doesnt seem to be the easiest solution :D
my humble advice to you is to think twice before occam's razor is poked into ur ass. ;D
peace
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