What is your answer to what seems to be a contradiction?

[Ervin]

In the Quran it says that God will not forgive shirk but that other sins he will to whoever he wants. Following are the verses?

 4:48 God does not forgive that partners be set up with Him, and He forgives other than that for whom He pleases. Whoever sets up partners with God has indeed invented a great sin.

 4:116 God does not forgive that partners be set up with Him, and He forgives other than that for whom He pleases. Whoever sets up partners with God has indeed strayed a far straying.

Now in sura Al Furkan it says that even those who worship other than God will be forgiven if they repent before death overtakes them.(Can someone please bring up verses that I am mentioning but not actually citing).

So, according to the above the only sin that won't be forgiven for sure if you die without having repented prior to death   is shirk.

But then in other places in the Quran it says that those who die as disbelievers will not be forgiven.(can someone please post these verses as well, I am not very good in finding them, I don't have a computer, I have only the phone).

As you see above it says in couple of places that only shirk can't be forgiven if not repented from  before death and then in another place it is contradicted by verses that  say that if you die as a nonbeliever you won't be forgiven, so its same as shirk.

Can someone post and  explain  what I posted above?

Thanks

[Student of Allah]

In the Quran it says that God will not forgive shirk but that other sins he will to whoever he wants. Following are the verses?

 4:48 God does not forgive that partners be set up with Him, and He forgives other than that for whom He pleases. Whoever sets up partners with God has indeed invented a great sin.

 4:116 God does not forgive that partners be set up with Him, and He forgives other than that for whom He pleases. Whoever sets up partners with God has indeed strayed a far straying.

Now in sura Al Furkan it says that even those who worship other than God will be forgiven if they repent before death overtakes them.(Can someone please bring up verses that I am mentioning but not actually citing).

So, according to the above the only sin that won't be forgiven for sure if you die without having repented prior to death   is shirk.

But then in other places in the Quran it says that those who die as disbelievers will not be forgiven.(can someone please post these verses as well, I am not very good in finding them, I don't have a computer, I have only the phone).

As you see above it says in couple of places that only shirk can't be forgiven if not repented from  before death and then in another place it is contradicted by verses that  say that if you die as a nonbeliever you won't be forgiven, so its same as shirk.

Can someone post and  explain  what I posted above?

Thanks

Shalom Aleikhem,

To explain this, i need to quote from another post of mine, kindly read that first:

Shalom Aleikhem,

Ofcourse it would contradict as long as Mercifulness = forgiveness or overlooking of faults on the basis of nothing what so ever.

Thats not what I think Mercifulness is, because there is already a word for that, its called "stupidity".

Think about this case, Person A punches you unnecessarily. You think you are being Merciful by not holding him accountable for it ? You are promoting unsocial behavior that is detrimental to the welfare of humanity. This person, without learning any lesson, would not stop before punching another human being.

Now think of another case where Person B punches you unnecessarily. For the sake of the explanation, lets assume that the person had a very bad day. Random people got into fights with him, beat him up. That happened over and over again. Till the time you arrived in the scene, he is not he anymore. He is a victim of mental/physical torture. When you mess with him, he punches.

It may not be possible for a person to prove his case in the court the way I laid it down. However, in the court of God, there isnt any lack of evidence. God knows what is in the heart of a person, God would know for certain that his behavior, although anti-social is more of a result of the abuse he had to withstand prior to the crime he committed. Mercifulness will be to consider his case and be compassionate. To be honest, compassion towards this guy would be pure JUSTICE. 

Peace
----------- Student of Allah

So, crimes that we end up doing can be overlooked if we can give Him a reason for that. May be by becoming a better person, repenting ...trying to fix what we broke. But it will not be overlooked for those who consciously out of their desire to take partners beside God..... chooses to set partners beside God.

How can this be contradictory ? He is willing to forgive as long as you are willing to be good. If you repented already, then you are no longer setting partners by definition. See if the following verse help you understand it :

25:68    And those who do not call on any other god with God; nor do they take the life which God has made forbidden, except in justice; nor do they commit adultery. And whoever does will receive the punishment.

25:69    The retribution will be doubled for him on the Day of Judgment and he will abide in it in disgrace.
25:70    Except for the one who repents and believes and does good works, for those God will replace their sins with good, and God is Forgiving, Merciful.
25:71    And whoever repents, and does good, then he shall repent towards God a true repentance.

So, a person who GENUINELY changes his way for the good, that person has forgiveness from SHIRK too. But the one who does not.... for example, the one who glorifies Bukhari's words and goes against God's words to follow Bukhari.... if that attitude is maintained till death.... the person failed the test.


MANY parts of Qur'an will contradict unless you put together everything and derive the meaning. Why would you isolate for example 25:68-71 from 4:48 while trying to derive meaning ? We have to see it as a BOOK ...as a whole, not individual sections.

So.... when you read a LAW or a RULE or a FACT... you can read it this way:

- God may chose to forgive the sin of a person, unless it is shirk. *

* Even shirk is forgiven if the person repents as soon as truth has arrived to her/him.

To end my random-style post:

Both ideas are true at the same time. God does not forgive shirk. Afterall, if the person changes his way...he is not counted with those who do shirk.


Peace
------------ Student of Allah

[noshirk]

salam

3:79 It is not for any human being that God would give him the Book and the authority and the prophethood, then he would say to the people: "Be servants to me rather than God!" Rather: "Be Devotees for what you have been taught of the Book, and of what yo
3:80 Nor does He order you that you take the angels and the prophets as patrons. Would He order you to rejection after you have submitted?

so shirk is also kofr (rejection).


salam

[Bigmo]

In the Quran it says that God will not forgive shirk but that other sins he will to whoever he wants. Following are the verses?

 4:48 God does not forgive that partners be set up with Him, and He forgives other than that for whom He pleases. Whoever sets up partners with God has indeed invented a great sin.

 4:116 God does not forgive that partners be set up with Him, and He forgives other than that for whom He pleases. Whoever sets up partners with God has indeed strayed a far straying.

Now in sura Al Furkan it says that even those who worship other than God will be forgiven if they repent before death overtakes them.(Can someone please bring up verses that I am mentioning but not actually citing).

So, according to the above the only sin that won't be forgiven for sure if you die without having repented prior to death   is shirk.

But then in other places in the Quran it says that those who die as disbelievers will not be forgiven.(can someone please post these verses as well, I am not very good in finding them, I don't have a computer, I have only the phone).

As you see above it says in couple of places that only shirk can't be forgiven if not repented from  before death and then in another place it is contradicted by verses that  say that if you die as a nonbeliever you won't be forgiven, so its same as shirk.

Can someone post and  explain  what I posted above?

Thanks

I think its important to allow the Koran to establish the criteria for faith which is faith in God and the herefater. Shrik means he does not believe in God . Kufr and shirk are the same thing. So even if the Koran says God can forgive anything but shirk, this does not mean God will forgive kufr. The Koran clearly said God won't. But kufr can be different categories. The Koran gives us different levels of kufr. It also says the hypocrites are in the lowest level of hell. Shirk tends to be absolute, either you believe in it or you don't while kufr can have different levels.

Also there is atill a debate about whether punishment is the same as eternal hell. Some say heaven and hell are eternal others say people can be punished by not necessarily eternally. So we really do not know.

Contradiction means two things can not be true at the same time. But this is not the case here. The Koran simply emphasized shirk as not really having a motive other than ridiculing God. Shirk is a theology build on demoting God and making stories. Its a kind of mockery of God.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7359195828637989025#

You need to understand what shirk is. Most Muslims are not aware of what shirk is.

[good logic]

GOD is clear in HIS proven scripture about " shirk":
A believer is loyal to GOD Alone; A disbeliever is loyal to "other/s". Hence this is "shirk".
There is no contradiction.
In peace

[Kaiokenred]

I think its important to allow the Koran to establish the criteria for faith which is faith in God and the herefater. Shrik means he does not believe in God . Kufr and shirk are the same thing. So even if the Koran says God can forgive anything but shirk, this does not mean God will forgive kufr. The Koran clearly said God won't. But kufr can be different categories. The Koran gives us different levels of kufr. It also says the hypocrites are in the lowest level of hell. Shirk tends to be absolute, either you believe in it or you don't while kufr can have different levels.

Also there is atill a debate about whether punishment is the same as eternal hell. Some say heaven and hell are eternal others say people can be punished by not necessarily eternally. So we really do not know.

Contradiction means two things can not be true at the same time. But this is not the case here. The Koran simply emphasized shirk as not really having a motive other than ridiculing God. Shirk is a theology build on demoting God and making stories. Its a kind of mockery of God.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7359195828637989025#

You need to understand what shirk is. Most Muslims are not aware of what shirk is.
[/quote

Faith in a god is against the Quran. I don't see why would Quran establish a criteria for faith in god

[youssef4342]

disbelievers and shirk/idol worship wouldn't really be forgiven if one carries them along with them to the grave....

Believing in the last minute wouldn't really help either (such might be the thinking of traditionalists, say the shahada and you're saved!)

"... believing will be of no avail to any human who did not believe before, or who, while believing, did no good works. ..." (6:158)

This would be why in many verse we see, those who believe AND did righteous work

Believe + do good

it is thus by Faith + works.....

[Ervin]

Selam, the answer came to me tonight. I am going to answer my own question in the favout of Quran. It is written in the Quran that only sin God doesnt forgive is shirk and that he might forgive other sins whom he will. Now in the tollowing verses we see that's only in the event where a person doesnt repent before death:

 68  And those who do not call on any other god with God; nor do they take the life which God has made forbidden, except in justice; nor do they commit adultery. And whoever does will receive the punishment. 25:69  The retribution will be doubled for him on the Day of Judgment and he will abide in it in disgrace. 25:70  Except for the one who repents and believes and does good works, for those God will replace their sins with good, and God is Forgiving, Merciful. 25:71  And whoever repents, and does good, then he shall repent towards God a true repentance.

Ok, now duing as a nonbeliever or if you kill a believer or someone else unjustly  will generally get you into hell but it might be forgiven without repenting. Same as many other sins, if you do t repent you risk eternal damnation but with shirk if you don't repent you don't risk, but you will face it for certain.

Thanks

[Bigmo]

Selam, the answer came to me tonight. I am going to answer my own question in the favout of Quran. It is written in the Quran that only sin God doesnt forgive is shirk and that he might forgive other sins whom he will. Now in the tollowing verses we see that's only in the event where a person doesnt repent before death:

 68  And those who do not call on any other god with God; nor do they take the life which God has made forbidden, except in justice; nor do they commit adultery. And whoever does will receive the punishment. 25:69  The retribution will be doubled for him on the Day of Judgment and he will abide in it in disgrace. 25:70  Except for the one who repents and believes and does good works, for those God will replace their sins with good, and God is Forgiving, Merciful. 25:71  And whoever repents, and does good, then he shall repent towards God a true repentance.

Ok, now duing as a nonbeliever or if you kill a believer or someone else unjustly  will generally get you into hell but it might be forgiven without repenting. Same as many other sins, if you do t repent you risk eternal damnation but with shirk if you don't repent you don't risk, but you will face it for certain.

Thanks

There is a judgment process. Its not one or two things that gets you to hell and heaven. Not repenting means you either see nothing wrong with what you did or that you are too proud to admit your mistake. But remember people do not commit acts in siolation. Usually here is a charcter issue. Things like arrogance, selfishness, ignorance, stubborness, greed and betrayal shapes many acts in your life.

The Korn tells us that once a person was condemned to hell and he said that he wanted a sceond chance so that he can do good with what he left behind. The scale gives good and bad, and if you are selfish that means you did very little good to others and exploited others. These things add up. If you are stingy than how can you give charity and help those in need?

In the end kufr is a compliation of several negative characters as the Koran says. Arrogance and envy is what broutght down satan and see the stuff he is doing now.

The Koran says those who disbelieve have arrogance in them that they will not reach. Satan said that mankind will show his ingratitude. The Koran say those who satan would not succeed in are the sincere ones. Its all about character and how it influences your deeds and faith. The Koran repeatedly says God does not guide the wrong doers and He despises the arrogant and stubborn and selfish ones. The Korans ays that God's mercy is close to the righteous ones and those who do want to gloat in this life.

Shirk is a theology. Its a corrupted theology whose goal is mockery and story telling. Its an admittance that a person does not take God seriously and is following a soap opera. Its a form of ingratitude, arrogance and mockery.

In the end it is aout character. A person who iils and feels no remorse and sees nothing wrong probably has done many things else in life. Do not expect this person to be honest and generous. It just does not work that way. God knows what is inside humans.

[Bigmo]

There is a judgment process. Its not one or two things that gets you to hell and heaven. Not repenting means you either see nothing wrong with what you did or that you are too proud to admit your mistake. But remember people do not commit acts in siolation. Usually here is a charcter issue. Things like arrogance, selfishness, ignorance, stubborness, greed and betrayal shapes many acts in your life.

The Korn tells us that once a person was condemned to hell and he said that he wanted a sceond chance so that he can do good with what he left behind. The scale gives good and bad, and if you are selfish that means you did very little good to others and exploited others. These things add up. If you are stingy than how can you give charity and help those in need?

In the end kufr is a compliation of several negative characters as the Koran says. Arrogance and envy is what broutght down satan and see the stuff he is doing now.

The Koran says those who disbelieve have arrogance in them that they will not reach. Satan said that mankind will show his ingratitude. The Koran say those who satan would not succeed in are the sincere ones. Its all about character and how it influences your deeds and faith. The Koran repeatedly says God does not guide the wrong doers and He despises the arrogant and stubborn and selfish ones. The Korans ays that God's mercy is close to the righteous ones and those who do not want to gloat in this life.

Shirk is a theology. Its a corrupted theology whose goal is mockery and story telling. Its an admittance that a person does not take God seriously and is following a soap opera. Its a form of ingratitude, arrogance and mockery.

In the end it is aout character. A person who iils and feels no remorse and sees nothing wrong probably has done many things else in life. Do not expect this person to be honest and generous. It just does not work that way. God knows what is inside humans.

[DaresBears]

Its not a contradiction, you have to take every verse in the context of the whole book and not alone. God says he will forgive those who commit shirk if they stop and become believers, so when God says he does not forgive shirk, it is obviously within the context of this, God does not forgive shirk at Judgement day, God does if the person gives it up.

[Meemz]

I agree with a lot of previous statements. My interpretation is that God weighs every act you do. If the good outweighs the bad you can gain entry into Jannah but not all acts are weighed the same. If you die in the state of shirk, it outweighs every good deed you have done. Shirk is not just disbelief in God but also disbelief in the the oneness of God. Ancient Greeks were mushriks because they did not believe in the existance of one God. But trinitarians are also mushriks because while they believe in God, they associate other things with him thereby denying his power. Even though they believe that the others are manifestations of a supreme deity.


Shirk is an act that you MUST repent for. Allah does not accept those who do not accept him. The Quran makes it clear that people go to  and from belief.  The verses are a warning. You can't cover your bases by worshipping multiple deities. You either believe in Allah or you don't and if you don't, then likewise you don't deserve a spot in his paradise. But if you repent and change your ways Allah is most merciful and most forgiving.