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Your Thoughts on Secular Governments?

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Kaiokenred:

--- Quote from: ExplorerSeeker86 on April 26, 2012, 09:15:05 PM ---Ok what evidence is there that the British of the past were Muslims? And second, is that website your answer for everything?

--- End quote ---

Mostly, since it  IS RIGHT, or the rightest you can find on the internet.
Read this to know about the history of Britain, http://servantofthelight.com/content/view/91/123/
Although you won't since it's too long

Anyway, I'll quote the first evidence from SOL "The Mancus (Arabic meaning - Struck) coin shown in the image were minted in 773-774 C.E endorsed by the Albic (falsely stated Anglo-Saxon) Offa Rex (757-796 C.E.). It was discovered in 1841 C.E., and is dis-played in the British Museum. This coin is a simulation in general design, to the Muslim Mancus Dinar in circulation during the eighth century.

The centre text reads "'Neither there is, nor (ever) shall there be a deity for worship and adoration, save for the One, who neither is, nor (ever) shall be a deity for worship and adoration, and Muhammad is the Apostle of the One who neither is, nor (ever) shall be a deity for worship and adoration’, and the further declaration, engraved around the margin of the coin, ‘Muhammad is the Apostle of the One who neither is, nor (ever) shall be a deity for worship and adoration, who sent him (Muhammad) with the doctrine and the true belief to prevail over every religion."
Obverse: The centre text reads "Muhammad is the Apostle of the One who neither is, nor (ever) shall be a deity for worship or adoration, with the name of the Offa Rex written upside down within that text." The text around the circumference reads "With the foundation of (commonly wrongly translated as name of) the One who neither is, nor ever shall be a deity for worship or adoration (Allah). This (coin) was minted in 157 A.H." (157 A.H. corresponds to 773-774 C.E.)"

The second evidence proves Abdun Nur's claim that some people of Britain (Albien) had to travel to another land after being hit by a comet. ( Those people were the ones who later perfected the Natural Law )

Aryan Warrior:
I personally believe a secular government indeed IS the best government we can get at the moment. Everything can fit under such a rule. The only thing that might be different law wise is that the punishment for Zina if caught by 4 witnesses in Islam is 100 lashes. Otherwise everything else can work in secular society.

Bascially the western world is more an Islamic society then the Middle East is ironically enough.

Many middle eastern countries try to enforce chopping hands, headscarves and clothing, not letting men and women date or even walk with each other, stoning to death, etc... and this stuff isn't in the Quran but rather bloody hadiths that have caused such falter.

Abdul-Hadi:
Greetings and Peace, all  :group:


--- Quote from: ExplorerSeeker86 on April 26, 2012, 06:47:40 PM ---What are your thoughts on secular governments and how moral they might be? From a Biblical perspective anyway a secular government can be moral, because God allows all governments to exist, and it says if a government is fairly benevolent the good will not find it's laws hard to follow.

America, Canada, etc. seem to fit the Bible's definition of a fairly benevolent government. It tries to look out for it's people.

Koran perspectives? Does God consider secular government good government?

--- End quote ---

Yes, secular is for the best.  Evidence:

2:256 There is no compulsion in the system; the proper way has been clarified from the wrong way. Whoever rejects evil, and believes in GOD, indeed he has taken grasp of the strongest hold that will never break. GOD is Hearer, Knower.

However:

30:22 And from His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the difference of your tongues and your colors. In that are signs for the world.

There will be those that choose other forms of government--and this is also okay.  Spinoza argued a good argument for his day, maybe even for today.

Secular humanists have plenty of good things to say, also.

AQ sets the framework for many things, but it is not a cookbook and a car repair manual and all manuals.  For things outside of the Deen, it is appropriate to seek wisdom where it can be found.

ALLAH knows best.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi 

Jafar:
The whole 'conception' of 'secular' government exist
Due to..
A tight grip of Sectarianism / Organized Religion in the past..

WHEN:
There were no tight grip of Sectarianism / Organized Religion in the past..
There will be no conception of 'secular' government.

The conception of 'Sectarianism / Organized Religion' is something which is not endorsed within the Quran.

Furthermore..
Even Jesus laid out his attack on Sectarianism/Organized Religion, (which during his time were represented by the "Scribes and Pharisees") using 'harsh words' such as 'serpent and vipers'

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
(Matt 23)

Compare the 'attitude' of "Scribes and Pharisees" on the description above with today's Imams, Clerics, Habibs, Sheikhs, Ulema, Priest, Reverend, Rabbis etc..

As such.. to be exact... "Religious/Sectarian Government" (the opposite of Secular Government) is definitely not endorsed within the Quran or Gospel.

Salam / Peace

ExplorerSeeker86:
Well secularism is originally the result of Europe breaking away from the rule of the Catholic Church, because the rule of the Church had many of the same abuses as Sharia governments in the Middle East. The Church thinks it's Bishops, Priests, etc. speak and act for God.

The kings went along with this because it helped keep the masses in line, until Henry VIII wasn't satisfied with church rule, because the Bible says the king is sovereign in his own realm. That the king answers to God. King David or Prophet David as you would know him, being an example.

The abuses of Church rule brought about secularism and the Protestant Reformation. Yes Protestants are Christians, but we put more emphasis on the Bible and on reason then Roman Catholicism does.

I think secularism is best, because if a person is going to approach God, it should never be forced.

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