Other Issues > Submitters / Code 19
Why I Find "Code 19" Unconvincing
MesMorial:
4 beginner reasons, without going in-depth:
***
1) In "Over it nineteen", the "IT" refers to saqar (not the Qur'an). To say otherwise is to act like a Sunni. The consequence is that it refers to 19 ANGELS. See 4).
2) "Thus does Allah make err whom He pleases, and He guides whom He pleases, and none knows the HOSTS OF YOUR LORD but He Himself."
The hosts of the Lord are angels (8:9). If the verse was about Code 19, it would not say this.
3) 37:63 shows that something imperceptible to readers is also somehow expected to be a fitna (just like in 74:31). Thus there is nothing TOO strange about it.
4) "19" being a sign is actually "19 angels" being a sign. For instance, in 2:185, a person should fast for an "equal count of days". Let us say 6. You could say their count is 6, but it is ONE grouped specification of 6 certain DAYS. Likewise, in 9:36, the count of the months is 12. Obviously more than 12 have passed since the beginning of history, but there are 12 in the GROUPING of certain months. So 74:31 should be read as "the counting of certain angels". The selecting (counting) of 19 angels serves as the fitna. The word "count" is different to "number", because when you count you consider each as a part of a group. "Number" is a measure of "amount", but it does not involve selection. There were 19 angels grouped, so their selection (count) was 1 (1 group). The NUMBER of angels is 19, but this is only how many were counted.
If the Qur’an is saying that the number COUNTED is the sign, it would say “3adad” (not “iddat”). That is: “We made the number counted as a fitna…” However, what it says is: “We made their selection (of 19 angels) as a fitna…” The number is 19 because there are 19 angels. The count is 1, because there was 1 grouping of 19 angels.
REHASH:
A count of 6 days is just one count of 6 days. So a count of 19 angels is one count of 19 angels. The number is the number actually in the count (which is NOT the sign in 74:31).
Notice the Qur'an always says "count OF something" (e.g. 9:36). This is because "counting" means "including". You cannot have a "number" of something, because a number is simply a number (of nothing). Notice enumerating something is different to counting it (65:1).
Bahman:
--- Quote from: MesMorial on April 23, 2012, 04:10:36 AM ---4 beginner reasons, without going in-depth:
--- End quote ---
Peace
What is your proof for divinity of Quran, ?
Quran without Miracle is same as older scripture .
All messages since creation has been same 2:62, Messages are for those that are not in straight path.
Before claiming this and that just produce one like those.
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603649.msg295115#msg295115
Student of Allah:
--- Quote from: Bahman on April 23, 2012, 09:51:44 AM ---
What is your proof for divinity of Quran, ?
--- End quote ---
Shalom Aleikhem,
Even if all fail to produce any concrete tangible evidence, it in no way or form what so ever gives any credibility to the "divinity" of "19".
On a personal level, I find it astonishing and wonder if these people would call the Qur'an a "sh*t load of bull cr*p" if it did not produce multiples of 19. (by the way... this is not in response to Bahman)
Peace
--------------- Student of Allah
GODsubmitter:
--- Quote from: Bahman on April 23, 2012, 09:51:44 AM ---
Quran without Miracle is same as older scripture .
--- End quote ---
EXACTLY !!!
MesMorial:
--- Quote from: Bahman on April 23, 2012, 09:51:44 AM ---Peace
What is your proof for divinity of Quran, ?
Quran without Miracle is same as older scripture .
All messages since creation has been same 2:62, Messages are for those that are not in straight path.
Before claiming this and that just produce one like those.
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603649.msg295115#msg295115
--- End quote ---
Dear Bahman;
I am not a Muslim. What I follow is here:
http://allpoetry.com/Minhaj
From my above logic, I do not find Code 19 valid on its face.
I once tried to "open my heart and soul" to it, but it slapped me.
Peace.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
Go to full version