Author Topic: Science of Hadith  (Read 5128 times)

Sunnah-hero

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 183
  • Gender: Male
Re: Science of Hadith
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2012, 04:17:23 AM »
Shalom Aleikhem,

This is the first post of you that I actually like and respect. This is the attitude you should take. Be nice, and give reason for what you believe and ask for reasons for other's beliefs.

Now... coming to your reasoning. If you ever visit india, just go around asking people if Durga is Goddess. I am pretty sure you will find nearly billion people testifying that they bear witness that Durga is a Goddess. Will you accept that hadith then ? If not, then why ? I would reject hadiths for similar reasons. Lots of people confirming a narration only shows that this is the dominant view , not necessarily the correct view.

I hope you understand why I disagreed. I tried to give example to show that I dont simply disagree just because its hadith. But for good reasons.

May God guide you to His straight path :)

Peace
---------- Student of Allah

thx dude but I keep in my mind my age is only 14 and when i first time was on freeminds i was 13... so didnt know how to reply in proper manner..... alhamdulillah i have grown up a bit....

Quote
Now... coming to your reasoning. If you ever visit india, just go around asking people if Durga is Goddess. I am pretty sure you will find nearly billion people testifying that they bear witness that Durga is a Goddess. Will you accept that hadith then ? If not, then why ? I would reject hadiths for similar reasons. Lots of people confirming a narration only shows that this is the dominant view , not necessarily the correct view.

you cannot compare these two things which each other. Sure you can ask 100 people with the same religion about religious matters and you would get the same answer..........however isnad is not about religious opinions... its about what a particular person said or did... for instance.... if you go to india and ask them what skin color mr. kaala has... and if 100 out of 100 say: his skin color is black. And if you ask some arabs in Lebanon(my country. I am lebanese) and ask them what skin color mr. Aswad has and 100 out of 100 reply his skin color is black. Would you then believe his skin color was white or black?

O People! Indeed, I have left among you, that which if you hold fast to it, you shall not go astray: The Book of Allah (Quran) and my Sunnah. (Sahih Al-Bukhari)

Sunnah-hero

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 183
  • Gender: Male
Re: Science of Hadith
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2012, 04:36:35 AM »
audubillahi mineshaytan

Quote
If your belief in God only comes from what other people tell you or want you to believe, it is not real belief. Sunnism, for example, can never be a real religion since it depends on accepting human opinions. Sunnism is Sunnism (i.e. it exists), but if it tries to be the real (compulsory) Islam, it will always be disappointed. If I have to accept something as part of my religion/spirituality, and it means accepting a human opinion (however “scholarly”), it ceases to be my belief and becomes something else. It is the main problem of indoctrination. People accept things as absolute Truth without them even being their own thoughts or perceptions. They will be unresponsive to logic or anything else which threatens their conditioning/programming.

using the same reason then its not real belief if quran tells you what to believe either? and do you mean that each and every person should have his own religion


Quote
. However, I will say that someone who follows their own perception and uses their brain actually has a path

of course we sunnis use our brains
O People! Indeed, I have left among you, that which if you hold fast to it, you shall not go astray: The Book of Allah (Quran) and my Sunnah. (Sahih Al-Bukhari)

Student of Allah

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1237
Re: Science of Hadith
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2012, 06:42:34 AM »
thx dude but I keep in my mind my age is only 14 and when i first time was on freeminds i was 13... so didnt know how to reply in proper manner..... alhamdulillah i have grown up a bit....

you cannot compare these two things which each other. Sure you can ask 100 people with the same religion about religious matters and you would get the same answer..........however isnad is not about religious opinions... its about what a particular person said or did... for instance.... if you go to india and ask them what skin color mr. kaala has... and if 100 out of 100 say: his skin color is black. And if you ask some arabs in Lebanon(my country. I am lebanese) and ask them what skin color mr. Aswad has and 100 out of 100 reply his skin color is black. Would you then believe his skin color was white or black?

Shalom aleikhem,

ohh... you are so young. Anyways, I apologize if I previously dealt with you like I would deal with a fully grown adult.

Coming to your latest reasoning. How about you visit France and Germany, and in both places 100/100 people testify that Christ was crucified and died on the cross. Will you accept it ? I am 100% certain, that at least "you" will not accept it. For the exact same reason, I cannot accept that kind of data collection methodology.

If collecting data like that would truly be accepted in your heart, then you wouldnt mind the "New Testament" books. Their WRITTEN records are much closer to Jesus than lets say Mr. Bukhary's recorded works. I am sure you will not allow St. Paul or Mark/Matthew/Luke/John to give "accurate" testimony about the life of Christ. In the same way, it is absurd to give anyone such as Bukhari the right to tell you "accurately" about the prophet who died 2 centuries before Bukhari.

I could refer you to read my writings or some other similar minded people's writings. However, I highly doubt if you will read neutrally. I understand your reasoning for not giving time to read our papers. So let me channel you to sources you can trust. Do you know Ahmed Deedat ? Zakir Naik ? Khaled Yasin ? If you do, then watch their refuting christianity/Bible videos. After you finish watching some, be fair and honest and  simply apply the same arguments to hadiths. You will get your answer God willing.

Peace be on you

-------- Student of Allah     


MesMorial

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 404
  • Gender: Male
Re: Science of Hadith
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2012, 05:47:43 PM »
Quote
using the same reason then its not real belief if quran tells you what to believe either? and do you mean that each and every person should have his own religion

That is why part 2 tells you everything must be recognised as FROM GOD. The Qur’an says it is good enough to make you believe it, and that is all the logic that I need to give you. The criterion is not offered available for the ahadith.

Quote
of course we sunnis use our brains

At the cost of exposing your lack of belief. I can use my brain to try to twist a verse too. Bear in mind that what I just responded to was not a thought-out statement.

Please look at this debate:

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=11713#p172386

...

Sunnah-hero

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 183
  • Gender: Male
Re: Science of Hadith
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2012, 02:15:23 PM »
Shalom aleikhem,

ohh... you are so young. Anyways, I apologize if I previously dealt with you like I would deal with a fully grown adult.

Coming to your latest reasoning. How about you visit France and Germany, and in both places 100/100 people testify that Christ was crucified and died on the cross. Will you accept it ? I am 100% certain, that at least "you" will not accept it. For the exact same reason, I cannot accept that kind of data collection methodology.

If collecting data like that would truly be accepted in your heart, then you wouldnt mind the "New Testament" books. Their WRITTEN records are much closer to Jesus than lets say Mr. Bukhary's recorded works. I am sure you will not allow St. Paul or Mark/Matthew/Luke/John to give "accurate" testimony about the life of Christ. In the same way, it is absurd to give anyone such as Bukhari the right to tell you "accurately" about the prophet who died 2 centuries before Bukhari.

I could refer you to read my writings or some other similar minded people's writings. However, I highly doubt if you will read neutrally. I understand your reasoning for not giving time to read our papers. So let me channel you to sources you can trust. Do you know Ahmed Deedat ? Zakir Naik ? Khaled Yasin ? If you do, then watch their refuting christianity/Bible videos. After you finish watching some, be fair and honest and  simply apply the same arguments to hadiths. You will get your answer God willing.

Peace be on you

-------- Student of Allah   

yes but there is a difference dude coz people in germany or france didnt witnessess the death of jesus while the narattors were sahaba karam who lived with the prophet....
2. the new testament doesnt got the science of hadith as we have.

Yes i love ahmed deedat and zakir naik i have watched all their videos... if you want i can give you some.... especially zakir naik is my favorite although i dont understand his english (he has very funny english accent)

BUT the people who gave us sunnah was the same people who gave us quran so how can u believe in the first and not in the second?
O People! Indeed, I have left among you, that which if you hold fast to it, you shall not go astray: The Book of Allah (Quran) and my Sunnah. (Sahih Al-Bukhari)

rbxavier

  • Beginner/Inquirer
  • *
  • Posts: 21
Re: Science of Hadith
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2012, 04:53:27 PM »
yes but there is a difference dude coz people in germany or france didnt witnessess the death of jesus while the narattors were sahaba karam who lived with the prophet....
2. the new testament doesnt got the science of hadith as we have.

Yes i love ahmed deedat and zakir naik i have watched all their videos... if you want i can give you some.... especially zakir naik is my favorite although i dont understand his english (he has very funny english accent)

BUT the people who gave us sunnah was the same people who gave us quran so how can u believe in the first and not in the second?

Quran 15:9
Quote
"We have without doubt, send down the message; and We will assuredly guard it(from corruption)."


Can the same be said about these Hadiths and sunnah?

amuslim

  • Truth Seeker
  • ***
  • Posts: 695
Re: Science of Hadith
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2012, 05:09:03 PM »
Peace Sunnah Hero,

BUT the people who gave us sunnah was the same people who gave us quran so how can u believe in the first and not in the second?

When did they author these books? 

Peace
[16:79]Do they not see the birds committed to fly in the atmosphere of the sky? No-one holds them up in the air except Allah. This should be (sufficient) proof for people who believe.

MesMorial

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 404
  • Gender: Male
Re: Science of Hadith
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2012, 05:50:08 PM »
Quote
BUT the people who gave us sunnah was the same people who gave us quran so how can u believe in the first and not in the second?

You just said what I said you would say.

Your belief is based on your opinions of people, not on the mandated isnad chain of "God + Qur'an-studier". Religion is a direct experience with God, as I showed even from the Qur'an.

Yours is not a valid reason to believe in "Hadith", even if what you said were true (for which there is no evidence except the records you say were written by them - based of course on more opinions!).


Student of Allah

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1237
Re: Science of Hadith
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2012, 07:11:36 PM »
yes but there is a difference dude coz people in germany or france didnt witnessess the death of jesus while the narattors were sahaba karam who lived with the prophet....
2. the new testament doesnt got the science of hadith as we have.

Yes i love ahmed deedat and zakir naik i have watched all their videos... if you want i can give you some.... especially zakir naik is my favorite although i dont understand his english (he has very funny english accent)

BUT the people who gave us sunnah was the same people who gave us quran so how can u believe in the first and not in the second?

Shalom Aleikhem,

Qur'an 2:111

قل هاتوا برهنكم إن كنتم صدقين........
.......Say: "Bring forth your proof if you are truthful."

So now, we have funneled down our differences. All you have to do, is give me the record of hadiths from "Sahaba"s. :) Bring forth your document, we shall then discuss more.

Peace
----------- Student of Allah

Sunnah-hero

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 183
  • Gender: Male
Re: Science of Hadith
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2012, 04:03:31 AM »
Peace Sunnah Hero,

When did they author these books? 

Peace

when they feared that the ummah would forget the prophets sws sunnah
O People! Indeed, I have left among you, that which if you hold fast to it, you shall not go astray: The Book of Allah (Quran) and my Sunnah. (Sahih Al-Bukhari)