Other Issues > Hadith Discussions

The status of the Prophet

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MesMorial:

--- Quote from: Kamzo19 on February 10, 2012, 01:24:48 PM ---Yes, I understand, so please, (I forgot to precise, sorry) see page 3 of the thread I posted, especially my argument with Aicha.

I support the idea of a messenger who is sent in the midst of the believers, after Prophet Muhammad, to continue showing what people are unable to see in the Scripture. This person would have the same role as Prophet Muhammad had in his time between the believers.

A lot of people on this forum don't like this idea.

Peace  :)

--- End quote ---


I think the prime problem is that it implies people do not have to study it, which is not the conclusion from above.

Student of Allah:
Shalom Aleikhem,


--- Quote from: helaldeshi on February 10, 2012, 06:39:03 AM ---
These are the terms of reference given to the Prophet s.a.w which include four distinct functions and Prophet s.a.w has been entrusted with all of them:
1. Recitation of the verses of Allah.
2. Teaching the Book of Allah.
3. Teaching the Wisdom.
4. Making the people pure.


--- End quote ---

Recitation of the verses of Allah.

Obviously

Teaching the Book of Allah.

Obviously. However, teaching is not equal to adding and subtracting from the book. That wont be teaching, that would be developing. I can teach you Algebra, this does not mean that I have to add or subtract to Algebra. I can simply teach you what my master taught me. Muhammad inspired with Qur'an..... so he will teach the Qur'an.

Teaching the wisdom

How is this different from teaching the Kitaab ?? isnt it a part of the kitaab ? remember the starting of Surah Ya Sin ? Before you tell me that there is a "and" in the ayaat you quoted, let me quote you some ayaats to learn the literature of The Book:

15:1 ALR, these are the signs of the Book, and a clear Qur'an.   
الر تلك ءايت الكتب وقرءان مبين

27:1    T'S, these are the signs of the Qur'an and a clear Book.
طس تلك ءايت القرءان وكتاب مبين

Now... do you want me to believe that Qur'an is book 1, and "Clear Book" is book 2 ? or they are the exact same book ?

Making the people pure

Indeed, when one teaches people Qur'an and invites to the way of Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching, how can he not invite to purity ?


Peace

------------- Student of Allah

noshirk:
salaam

i note that:


--- Quote from: helaldeshi on February 10, 2012, 06:39:03 AM ---These are the terms of reference given to the Prophet s.a.w which include four distinct functions and Prophet s.a.w has been entrusted with all of them:
1. Recitation of the verses of Allah.
2. Teaching the Book of Allah.
3. Teaching the Wisdom.
4. Making the people pure.

And the Quran leaves no ambiguities in the fact.

--- End quote ---

became


--- Quote from: helaldeshi on February 10, 2012, 10:01:37 AM ---
a)   He is the authority in the way the Book has to be recited.
b)   He has the final word in the interpretation of the Book.
c)   He is the only source at which the wisdom based on divine guidance can be learned.
d)   He is entrusted with the practical training of the people to bring his teachings into practice.


--- End quote ---


16:35 And those who were polytheists said: "If God had wished, we would not have served a thing other than Him; neither us nor our fathers; nor would we have made unlawful anything other than from Him." Those before them did exactly the same thing; so are the messengers required to do anything except deliver with clarity?
16:82 So if they turn away, then you are only required to deliver clearly
24:54 Say: "Obey God, and obey the messenger." But if they turn away, then he is only responsible for his obligation, and you are responsible for your obligations. And if you obey him, you will be guided. The messenger is only required to deliver clearly
29:18 "And if you disbelieve, then nations before you have also disbelieved." The messenger is only required to deliver clearly.

and many many other verses stating that the messenger "is only required to..."

so, i can't understand how "only" becames 1) 2) 3) 4) and next  a) b) c) d)  with no ambiguity.

peace

45:6 These are the revelations of God, We recite them to you with the truth. So, in which narrative after God and His revelations do they believe?

NielsJacob:
Hello helaldehsi.


--- Quote ---The status of the Prophet is not just a carrier or a postman who, after delivering the letter, has no concern with it whatsoever. The Prophets are not set merely to deliver the word of Allah
--- End quote ---

In somehow it is. Like the postman he is a messenger. When he start to speak his own words he will not have the same autority.
There must be some different between a mans word and Gods word.
Muhammed also never wanted any of his own words written down (so far I know).
 

Obey God and obey the messenger. Doesn´t mean obey Muhammed nessesary. When he is the messenger he is bringing the words of God. But  also he have to speak his own words after doing what he is supposed to do (as the postman will do after work).
What I mean is that there somehow must be a distinction between the two terms.

Another thing.
Do you think that Muhammed is different from the other prophets before him?
AQ says 2.136:
Say, [O believers], "We have believed in Allah and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."
I think if you start to follow the words of Muhammed. You are supposed to follow the other prophets as well.

In Christanity. Jesus is in a very high possision. They even think he is God.

For me its the same process in Islam. People want to lift up Muhammeds words as they were directly from God

Peace

MesMorial:
His job was to deliver the message, but this meant helping the message to sink in (teach it), and to make sure people had access to it. Not so easy in the climate. Sunnis think delivering was not enough, because they think that it was easy. Many Sunnis think that they should have been chosen instead.

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