Author Topic: Which direction to pray?  (Read 3323 times)

_Ala_

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Re: Which direction to pray?
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2012, 07:15:46 AM »
Salam Sidi

Salam

The Arabic word 'Qibla' is formed from its root word 'QAF-BA-LAM' and means to face or front something, to advance, to encounter or to confront face to face. It forms words such as 'istaqbalahu' which means that he faced him or it, that he turned his face towards him or it or indeed met him.

Other word derivates are also formed such as 'qubalatahu' which means opposite to, in a position so as to face him or it. Other words are also formed which imply a direction, point, place or something which is in front of another thing.

The Quran consistently uses the word 'Qibla' in the context of a direction of devotion

Yes, Yes, and yes  :) I agree with all that!
Quote

 or prayer (2:142, 2:143, 2:144, 2:145, 2:145, 2:145, 10:87)

AQ-10:087

"And We inspired Moses and his brother with this Message: "Provide houses for your people in Egypt, make your houses into direction (Arabic: Qiblatan) to establish prayers: and give glad tidings to those who believe!"


About 2:142-145

2:142
Literal:   The ignorant/foolish from the people will say: "What turned them away from their direction ,which they were on it?" Say: "To God  the sunrise/east and the sunset/west, He guides whom He wills/wants to a straight/direct road/way."

This aya actually says no matter east or west, Alsiraat almustaqeem (the right path) is not bound to any cardinal direction. I think it is about direction in faith. So the fool who dont know what the right path is about will ask why those people changed their faith?

2:143
Literal:     And like that We made you a moderate/reasonable nation to be witnesses on the people, and the messenger be witness on you, and We did not make the direction that you were on it, except to know who follows the messenger from who returns on his two heels , and that truly big/great except on those who God guided, and God was not to waste your faith/belief, that God (is) with the people merciful/compassionate , most merciful .


So, by telling the people that its not about any direction on the compass and showing them the right path (in 2:142) God made them a reasonable/moderate nation.
I dont think that the direction of Salat is so hard to follow that the direction in particular will be the criterion for the prophet to know who is with him and who is not. All muslims pray towards Kaaba but they all follow hadeeth and sunna and all kind of traditions as well, so how are they following the rasool? That is barely something hard except for the nonbelievers. However what is hard for the nonbelievers is to follow Abrahams religion, the straight path.

2:144
Literal:    We have seen/understood your face turning around in the sky, so We will turn/enable/appoint you a direction you accept/approve it, so turn your face towards the Mosque (masjid) the Forbidden/Respected/Sacred and wherever you were so turn your faces towards it, and that those who were given The Book they know that it is the truth from their Lord, and that God is not with neglecting/disregarding about what they make/do .


God is talking about the confused believer (messenger or not). God is telling this confused believer to turn his/her face towards "Masjid Alharam". Turning the face towards something is not literal here because God told us earlier that its not about physical directions. Its about facing life, face life with masjud alharam in focus, in other words live like Abraham did since he established masjid alharam.

2:145
Literal:    And if you gave/came (those who were given The Book with each/every verse/evidence they would not followed your direction, and you are not with following their direction, and some of them not with following the direction of some, and if you followed their self attractions for desires from after what came to you from the knowledge , that you are then from the unjust/oppressors.


Here it becomes clear that Qibla is not about any direction for salat. whatever evidence you bring to them they still wont follow your way (alsirat almustaqeem as previous). They follow other ways/faiths in life according to their desires.
Honestly to claim that those ayas has anything to do with salat and its direction requires some hadeethly imagination  ;D


10:87
Literal:   And We inspired/transmitted to Moses and his brother that you reside/establish houses/homes to your people/nation by a city/border/region/Egypt, and make your houses/homes direction, and keep up the prayers, and announce good news to the believers.


bani Israel were in trouble and they asked God for help. This aya is what God told them to do as solution. Make yourself homes/dwellings in this place (misr) where you are oppressed but make your houses even qiblahs. I am not sure of what this means, I think to make the houses a place where they can take refuge, remember God and maintain alsiraat almustaqeem since they were not allowed to do this freely in misr. And ofcourse maintain salat. But maintaining salat there has nothing to do with their houses being qiblahs.

Peace!




فَبِأَيِّ آلأءِ رَبِّكُمَا تُكَذِّبَانِ

Jafar

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Re: Which direction to pray?
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2012, 01:46:39 PM »
The Arabic word 'Qibla' is formed from its root word 'QAF-BA-LAM' and means to face or front something, to advance, to encounter or to confront face to face. It forms words such as 'istaqbalahu' which means that he faced him or it, that he turned his face towards him or it or indeed met him.

Other word derivates are also formed such as 'qubalatahu' which means opposite to, in a position so as to face him or it. Other words are also formed which imply a direction, point, place or something which is in front of another thing.


Qaf-Ba-Lam as you've highlighted can also mean 'encounter', 'proceed towards'...
Which make this verse clearer..

AQ-10:087
"And We inspired Moses and his brother with this Message: "Provide houses for your people in Egypt, make your houses AS GATHERING POINT (Arabic: Waj'alu Buyutakum Qiblatan) to AND ESTABLISH/UPHOLD THE SALAT (Wa Aqimu Al-Salata) and give glad tidings to those who believe!"


Qiblat is a place to gather.. gathering point.. rallying point.. a place to go to..
And not a 'place to direct your face to'..

10:087 meant.. Yo. Moses.. create a dwelling place in Egypt.. gather all of your people there.. tell them to uphold/steadfast in faith/prayer/commandment and give good news for those who have faith..

Because the next plan is... to migrate all of them out from Egypt... which will be hard to do if you don't have all of them gathered in one place to start with right?

Salam / Peace
The Arabs (al-arabu) are the worst in rejection and hypocrisy, and more likely not to know the limits of what God has sent upon His messenger
9:97

And yes it's written as Al-Arabu and not Al-Badawi or Badawiyun..
*For those who had a hard time accepting this fact..

-Mariam

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Re: Which direction to pray?
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2012, 06:06:07 PM »
Taking aside whether Makkah is the actual Qiblah and whether Qibla means a focal point for ritual prayers (again taking aside whether there is ritual prayer in the Quran)
Is your point that the person in Brazil (imagine a person is in Brazil) Can pray both to their East and west but they'll still be praying towards the same place?
Similarly, a person in Britain can pray South Easternly and North Westernly but still be facing the same place? Or am I crazy lol

Phew!

mmkhan

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Re: Which direction to pray?
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2012, 11:41:54 PM »
Salaam,

I have a few simple questions. Can someone with knowledge enlighten me with your answers so that I can correct myself! Thanks.

1- Where is it mentioned in AlQuraan that we have to keep our face towards Qiblah [what ever it is] when we are going to start our Salaat?

2- Is it really/literally possible for people around the world to keep their face [direction] towards a single mosque called AlMasjid AlHaraam?

3- As per 2:144 everybody is asked to turn their faces towards AlMasjid AlHaraam, then what people are doing inside AlMasjid AlHaraam in Makkah?

4- Why is سَیَقُوۡلُ ...السُّفَہَآءُ مِنَ النَّاسِ used in 2:142 when it means "The fools among the people will say..."? It has to happen, not yet happened?

5- In 12:26 ...اِنۡ کَانَ قَمِیۡصُہٗ قُدَّ مِنۡ قُبُلٍ... the word used is qubulin, is it also derived from the word qibla? Is it talking about Yousuf's qiblah?


May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us all to His true path  :pr
mmKhan
6:162    قل إن صلاتي ونسكي ومحياي ومماتي لله رب العلمين
6:162    Say: My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to Allah, Lord of the worlds.
 
3:51    إن الله ربي وربكم فاعبدوه هذا صرط مستقيم
3:51    Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so serve Him,

Sidi

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Re: Which direction to pray?
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2012, 06:20:23 AM »
Salam Bro Jaafar and Sis Ala

@Ala

:hmm, I concur with you to a certain extent.

In verses 02:144,149,150 - In these verses it is not mentioned of Salat but the context in those verses points on a contrary. ALLAH says ...."turn your face towards Masjidil Haraam whereever you are.........."[not the exact translation] HE had extablished a focul point and for what, if its not for a specific purpose.

A good example is AQ-10:87, where Bro Jaafar corrected me, if you check the context of the verse you will find that the Qiblat mentioned does not means direction but instead gathering / meeting point and it has nothing to do with direction of Salat albeit Salat is mentioned in the verse.

Thank you Bro Jaafar and Sis Ala. Its been an education for me :)


Bahman

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Are you praying? then why silence?
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2012, 12:34:10 PM »
Peace everybody.
Regardless, timing, actions, words, claims for 3:96,...... now we live in such era with GPS and all other tools to find our direction
Any high school student knows that any sphere any size can have infinite center axis wich creates 2 points 180 degree apart from each other in all directions.
Simpler example is we can insert a Large Knitting Needles into any line splitting an  orange in any direction which creates 2 points 180 degree apart from each other in infinite direction (Nano degrees :))
The following image shows that person in city 180 degree apart of KabhaS !



Bahman

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Re: Which direction to pray?
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2012, 01:18:09 PM »
Peace.
I see your point more clear now , regardless my picture not showing exact location   and regardless you claim for being wet yet we have 360 direction  asnd God knew that earth is not flat.

any sphere can have infinite axis

Bahman

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Are you praying?
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2012, 08:58:08 AM »
Peace everybody.
Regardless, timing, actions, words, claims for 3:96,...... now we live in such era with GPS and all other tools to find our direction
Any high school student knows that any sphere any size can have infinite center axis wich creates 2 points 180 degree apart from each other in all directions.
Refreshing image  url link
 

Jafar

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Re: Are you praying?
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2012, 09:59:30 AM »
Refreshing image  url link
 

Refreshing the proper posture to pray towards Mecca from  that point





Salam / Peace
The Arabs (al-arabu) are the worst in rejection and hypocrisy, and more likely not to know the limits of what God has sent upon His messenger
9:97

And yes it's written as Al-Arabu and not Al-Badawi or Badawiyun..
*For those who had a hard time accepting this fact..

Bigmo

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Re: Which direction to pray?
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2012, 10:55:03 AM »
Qaf-Ba-Lam as you've highlighted can also mean 'encounter', 'proceed towards'...
Which make this verse clearer..

AQ-10:087
"And We inspired Moses and his brother with this Message: "Provide houses for your people in Egypt, make your houses AS GATHERING POINT (Arabic: Waj'alu Buyutakum Qiblatan) to AND ESTABLISH/UPHOLD THE SALAT (Wa Aqimu Al-Salata) and give glad tidings to those who believe!"


Qiblat is a place to gather.. gathering point.. rallying point.. a place to go to..
And not a 'place to direct your face to'..

10:087 meant.. Yo. Moses.. create a dwelling place in Egypt.. gather all of your people there.. tell them to uphold/steadfast in faith/prayer/commandment and give good news for those who have faith..

Because the next plan is... to migrate all of them out from Egypt... which will be hard to do if you don't have all of them gathered in one place to start with right?

Salam / Peace

Thre is nothing in Judaic tradition about what you are saying. Meanwhile the Koran specifically said that Qibla is something the Jews have and understand like they understand and know their own sons.
88:21 22; And so, exhort them your task is only to exhort; you cannot compel them to believe