Author Topic: Salat - only two times mentioned in the Quran  (Read 17890 times)

herbman

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Re: Salat - only two times mentioned in the Quran
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2012, 07:59:10 AM »
Salam,

The easiest pitfall of 11:114 is to "assume" that the day only has 2 parts (thus we end up looking at dusk & dawn - and since "near night" is dusk, we assume the verse is simply being repeptitive).

The day has at least 3 parts (see 20:130) - which means that 11:114 is refering to the "first 2 parts" (dawn & noon) while the last part os refering to the 3rd Salat "dusk" which is near the night.

Salam brother Layth,

how would name the noon salat as per Qur'an?

peace

redsulphur1229

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Re: Salat - only two times mentioned in the Quran
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2012, 08:55:07 AM »
While 20:130 mentions multiple times for glorification (more than 3), no reference is made to this as Salat, especially since Salat is separately mentioned in 20:132.

After reviewing all of the excellent threads relating to this topic, I agree that perhaps the focus should now be on what exactly "Salat" means.

Thanks!

Layth

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Re: Salat - only two times mentioned in the Quran
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2012, 11:15:33 AM »
Salam Herbman,

Quote
how would name the noon salat as per Qur'an?

The name is "Wusta/Middle" - which makes perfect sence as the Salat time streches from noon till sunset.

Salam Redsuphur,

Quote
While 20:130 mentions multiple times for glorification (more than 3), no reference is made to this as Salat, especially since Salat is separately mentioned in 20:132

I think you missed the point I was making. Verse 20:130 uses the word "Atraaf Alnahhar" - meaning there are "3 or more" edges/parts to the day. Verse 11:114 uses the words "Tarafi Alnahhar" - meaning it is only referring to "2" of these edges/parts.

Thus to assume that 11:114 is referring to dawn and dusk is incorrect - it is referring to dawn and noon (the first 2 parts/edges of the day).
`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)

mmkhan

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Re: Salat - only two times mentioned in the Quran
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2012, 02:20:43 AM »
Salaam,

Brother RedSulpher  :welcome: to the forum.


As per my understanding 11:114 refers to a single Salaat at 2 parts/edges of day [i.e., Salaat AlFajr] as there are many edges of the day.

In contrast to Eishaan there are many edges used by their names in AlQuraan.

AlAshiyee wa AlAbkaar - AlAbkaar is an edge of day [morning] 3:41
AlGhadaati wa AlAshiyee - AlGhadaati is an edge of day [morning] 6:52
AlAshiyee wa AlIshraaq - AlIshraaq is an edge of day [morning] 38:18

Besides AlFajr we have three more times mentioned by their names, and also there is Subha, etc. This shows that there are many edges of the day. Now back to 11:114

11:114 وَ اَقِمِ الصَّلٰوۃَ طَرَفَیِ النَّہَارِ وَ زُلَفًا مِّنَ الَّیۡلِ ؕ اِنَّ الۡحَسَنٰتِ یُذۡہِبۡنَ السَّیِّاٰتِ ؕ ذٰلِکَ ذِکۡرٰی لِلذّٰکِرِیۡنَ
17:78 اَقِمِ الصَّلٰوۃَ لِدُلُوۡکِ الشَّمۡسِ اِلٰی غَسَقِ الَّیۡلِ وَ قُرۡاٰنَ الۡفَجۡرِ ؕ اِنَّ قُرۡاٰنَ الۡفَجۡرِ کَانَ مَشۡہُوۡدًا

AlSalaata is singular word used in both aayaats that clearly shows that it talks about a single Salaat before waw. Hence 11:114 also refers to a single Salaat at two edges of day [i.e., Salaat AlFajr] and another Salaat refers to Salaat AlEishaan.


May Allah increase us all in knowledge and guide us all to His true path  :pr
mmKhan
6:162    قل إن صلاتي ونسكي ومحياي ومماتي لله رب العلمين
6:162    Say: My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to Allah, Lord of the worlds.
 
3:51

missabou

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Re: Salat - only two times mentioned in the Quran
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2012, 09:27:31 PM »
I'm new to this group, so I'm still learning.  My question is, what about the hadith Allah told Mohammed believers should pray 50 times a day and Mohammed finally got Allah to agree with only 5 prayers per day.  How do the hadith fit in with the Quran?  The idea of prayer at the beginning of the day and end of the day makes a lot of sense just taking what is in the Quran.

mmkhan

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Re: Salat - only two times mentioned in the Quran
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2012, 01:22:39 AM »
I'm new to this group, so I'm still learning.  My question is, what about the hadith Allah told Mohammed believers should pray 50 times a day and Mohammed finally got Allah to agree with only 5 prayers per day.  How do the hadith fit in with the Quran?  The idea of prayer at the beginning of the day and end of the day makes a lot of sense just taking what is in the Quran.

:welcome: missabou,

The highlighted part above is from me.

It really makes me laugh on that part because I remember aayat 35:44

35:44 اَوَ لَمۡ یَسِیۡرُوۡا فِی الۡاَرۡضِ فَیَنۡظُرُوۡا کَیۡفَ کَانَ عَاقِبَۃُ الَّذِیۡنَ مِنۡ قَبۡلِہِمۡ وَ کَانُوۡۤا اَشَدَّ مِنۡہُمۡ قُوَّۃً ؕ وَ مَا کَانَ اللّٰہُ لِیُعۡجِزَہٗ مِنۡ شَیۡءٍ فِی السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ لَا فِی الۡاَرۡضِ ؕ اِنَّہٗ کَانَ عَلِیۡمًا قَدِیۡرًا
35:44    Did they not roam the earth and note how was the consequence for those who were before them? And they were even more powerful than they in strength. But nothing can inhibit God be it in the heavens, or the earth. He is Knowledgeable, Omnipotent.

Please look at the Arabic word "aajiz"

May Allah increase us all in knowledge and guide us all to His true path  :pr
mmKhan

Sorry for  :offtopic:
6:162    قل إن صلاتي ونسكي ومحياي ومماتي لله رب العلمين
6:162    Say: My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to Allah, Lord of the worlds.
 
3:51

missabou

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Re: Salat - only two times mentioned in the Quran
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2012, 08:20:23 AM »
Salaam!  Thank you for all the good information! May Allah bless you.

redsulphur1229

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Re: Salat - only two times mentioned in the Quran
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2012, 01:40:43 PM »
Salaam missabou

You asked about the hadith where Salat was reduced from 50 to 5.  Frankly, it does not fit into any discussion of the Quran - the Quran makes no mention of 5 prayers, and the only support for it is the hadith.  Personally, I do not accept the authenticity of hadith generally being 150 plus years after the fact, based on hearsay upon hearsay, and the result of Abbasid political influence.  The hadith regarding the 5 prayers is particularly suspectm mostly because, on its face, of the 3 players in the hadith, only Moses is portrayed as having more sense than even Allah and Muhammad.  The following is the full text of that hadith, from Bokhari:


Volume 1, Book 8, Number 345: Narrated Abu Dhar: Allah's Apostle said, "While I was at Mecca the roof of my house was opened and Gabriel descended, opened my chest, and washed it with Zam-zam water. Then he brought a golden tray full of wisdom and faith and having poured its contents into my chest, he closed it. Then he took my hand and ascended with me to the nearest heaven, when I reached the nearest heaven, Gabriel said to the gatekeeper of the heaven, 'Open (the gate).' The gatekeeper asked, 'Who is it?' Gabriel answered: 'Gabriel.' He asked, 'Is there anyone with you?' Gabriel replied, 'Yes, Muhammad is with me.' He asked, 'Has he been called?' Gabriel said, 'Yes.' So the gate was opened and we went over the nearest heaven and there we saw a man sitting with some people on his right and some on his left. When he looked towards his right, he laughed and when he looked toward his left he wept. Then he said, 'Welcome! O pious Prophet and pious son.' I asked Gabriel, 'Who is he?' He replied, 'He is Adam and the people on his right and left are the souls of his offspring. Those on his right are the people of Paradise and those on his left are the people of Hell and when he looks towards his right he laughs and when he looks towards his left he weeps.'
Then he ascended with me till he reached the second heaven and he (Gabriel) said to its gatekeeper, 'Open (the gate).' The gatekeeper said to him the same as the gatekeeper of the first heaven had said and he opened the gate. Anas said: "Abu Dhar added that the Prophet met Adam, Idris, Moses, Jesus and Abraham, he (Abu Dhar) did not mention on which heaven they were but he mentioned that he (the Prophet ) met Adarn on the nearest heaven and Abraham on the sixth heaven. Anas said, "When Gabriel along with the Prophet passed by Idris, the latter said, 'Welcome! O pious Prophet and pious brother.' The Prophet asked, 'Who is he?' Gabriel replied, 'He is Idris." The Prophet added, "I passed by Moses and he said, 'Welcome! O pious Prophet and pious brother.' I asked Gabriel, 'Who is he?' Gabriel replied, 'He is Moses.' Then I passed by Jesus and he said, 'Welcome! O pious brother and pious Prophet.' I asked, 'Who is he?' Gabriel replied, 'He is Jesus.?
Then I passed by Abraham and he said, 'Welcome! O pious Prophet and pious son.' I asked Gabriel, 'Who is he?' Gabriel replied, 'He is Abraham.? The Prophet added, 'Then Gabriel ascended with me to a place where I heard the creaking of the pens." Ibn Hazm and Anas bin Malik said: The Prophet said, "Then Allah enjoined fifty prayers on my followers when I returned with this order of Allah, I passed by Moses who asked me, 'What has Allah enjoined on your followers?' I replied, 'He has enjoined fifty prayers on them.' Moses said, 'Go back to your Lord (and appeal for reduction) for your followers will not be able to bear it.' (So I went back to Allah and requested for reduction) and He reduced it to half. When I passed by Moses again and informed him about it, he said, 'Go back to your Lord as your followers will not be able to bear it.' So I returned to Allah and requested for further reduction and half of it was reduced. I again passed by Moses and he said to me: 'Return to your Lord, for your followers will not be able to bear it. So I returned to Allah and He said, 'These are five prayers and they are all (equal to) fifty (in reward) for My Word does not change.' I returned to Moses and he told me to go back once again. I replied, 'Now I feel shy of asking my Lord again.' Then Gabriel took me till we '' reached Sidrat-il-Muntaha (Lote tree of; the utmost boundry) which was shrouded in colors, indescribable. Then I was admitted into Paradise where I found small (tents or) walls (made) of pearls and its earth was of musk."

GODsubmitter

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Re: Salat - only two times mentioned in the Quran
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2012, 03:18:52 PM »
Quote
Such a prayer time would be consistent with the practice of Jews who ceased all selling prior to sunset (and not in the early afternoon) on Fridays in preparation for the Sabbath.  In other words, that the Quran is inviting all Muslims to close their markets at the same time as the Jews but to also gather for the Salat is a reasonable interpretation of this verse

I agree with you on this redsulphur1229.

There is an excellent article confirming that:

http://www.ccg.org/english/s/p274.html
God has no Religion!

God is running everything.

Peace begins with me.

Lachini

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Re: Salat - only two times mentioned in the Quran
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2012, 12:29:27 PM »
Salaam redsulphur1229

   It seems unreasonable that God sets time for glorifying or remembering Him. According to the Quran we must always glorify and remember God. Therefore , in my opinion the times mentioned refer to the contact prayers and contact prayers have different titles and not only one presupposed title, ie salaat.