Author Topic: التَّنُّورُ meanings and perception-"The Geyser"  (Read 3800 times)

Mazhar

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theNabster

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Re: التَّنُّورُ meanings and perception-"The Geyser"
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2011, 08:19:23 AM »
Peace Bro,

yes there needs to be some clarifications on this, but in my view, I thought geysers were (multiple small) volcanoes / rifts in the middle of fresh shallow water lakes, large marshes and ponds...

as for "faarat attanouru" faarat means boils, so maybe in fact attanoouru is a shallow water lake with small volcanoes (rifts in the bottom) boiling the surface...

if the volcanoes are dormant, then the water will not boil, when they become active, the water starts boiling, and the water just underneath the rift/volcano will come up as an eruption of water vapors, like in your picture...

that is indeed a more accurate and illustrative description of what the ayah refers to than you or pazuzu...

that being said, this does not invalidate the fact that it is a clue for Nooh to board the ship...

Pazuzu

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Re: التَّنُّورُ meanings and perception-"The Geyser"
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2011, 08:24:00 AM »
Quote
People drown in water not oven

I never said that. I said the eruption of the "oven" was the SIGN for Noah to board the ship.

Since you mentioned "geyser", I will bring to your attention what some scientists, who have studied the topography and soil of Arabia (and taken satellite images of the land) have said concerning this issue:

Geologist Farooq Al-Baz, the head of the Center for Remote Sensing at Boston University in Boston, Massachusetts, and former director at NASA, has confirmed the presence of enormous quantities of water under the sands of the Rubb'al-Khali desert in Arabia, as well as several dry river beds, among them a trench which extends from the Surat mountains, all the way to Iraq. Apparently, a giant river once bisected Arabia. The source of this river was an underground basin and caves in the Surat mountains, and it flowed eastward until it joined with the Euphrates. The size of the canyon it left behind indicates that this river was wider than the Nile of Africa.

This was confirmed by satellite images taken by space shuttle Endeavor in 1994. 

Check this out:


Satellite image showing giant river bed running across Arabian peninsula.

This giant river canyon is called "Wadi Hafr al-Batten"    حفر الباطن , and it runs parallel to a trans-Arabia highway, which joins Saudi Arabia with Iraq.

Here is another satellite photo showing various branches of this river (note the geographical feature known as "Harrat al-Rahat", one of the largest volcanic fields in Saudi Arabia, represented by a triangle, near the bottom of the image)


Al-Baz confirmed that the Rub' al Khali desert sits on top of what could be the largest underground water basin in all of Asia.
Source: Article posted on Al-Jazeera.net - Reuters Archive - posted on 4/2/2002.

This is not the only river that dried up in Arabia. There were dozens of lakes and rivers, which indicates that some 10,000 to 8,000 years ago, Arabia was very different from what it is today. The peninsula underwent a dramatic change in its climate and geography, as vast expanses of land, once covered with lush forests and grassy plains gradually started to turn into deserts. These green expanses began receding, and are now limited to the mountainous south western region of Asir and Yemen, along the Red Sea coast. 

This scientific fact has led geologists to draw imaginary illustrations of what Arabia must have looked like in those ages before memory. In his book "Origins of Arabia",    Andrew Thompson gives us his vision of prehistoric Arabia:

What Arabia looked like at the time of Adam

Apparently, the cause of this change was the recession of water after a giant flood had taken place in the region.

The Quran tells us that the primary cause of the flood was not only torrential rain,  but also the explosion of fountains, which spilled forth enormous quantities of water onto the land surface.

{So We opened the gates of the sky with pouring water * And We caused springs to gush out of the earth. Thus the waters met to a command which had been measured}...(54:11,12)

So what caused the springs to gush forth?

Here is the scentific theory:

Apparently, while Europe was still caught in the last throes of the Ice Age, Arabia was teeming with life of all sorts. As the great glaciers of central and southern Europe began to melt (around 14,000 BC to 10,000 BC), they caused the sea level in the entire ancient world to rise by no less than 200 meters, and also caused enormous pressure on the tektonic plates (along the Afro-Asian fault line which runs underneath the Red Sea). Eventually, this put pressure on the underground water basins, causing them to explode outwards.

Obviously, the only natural chimneys through which this explosion can take place are either the fissures in the rocks (springs), or the openings of volcanos.

The following is a horizontal (west - to - east) cross-sectional view of Arabia, showing what happened there, as a result of the melting of the great glaciers in Europe.



The rectangle at the top shows the status of the underwater basins before 15,000 B.C. (The water expanse on the left is the Red Sea. The volcano in the middle represents the Surat mountains, and the water expanse on the right is the Arabian Gulf).

The bottom rectangle shows what happened as a result of the gradual melting of the ice sheets in southern Europe and Asia Minor. Pressure is exerted on the Arabian Shield (Central part of Arabia, where the Rub-al Khali Desert now lies),.

So, as you can see, torrential rain was not the prime cause of the great flood. The prime cause was the elevation of water levels in the great bodies of water surrounding Arabia (the Red Sea, Indian Ocean and Arabian Gulf), due to the melting of the glaciers, and the pressure it put on the underground water sources, causing them to burst from fissures and volcanic openings.



A  "tannour" in the Najd area of Arabia. Note the mass of black volcanic rock near the opening. These patches exist all over the place in Saudi Arabia and Yemen, and are called "Harrat"

Now, about the phrase: "Fara al-tannuru"  (boiling of the oven), it simply denotes the sign given to Noah that the region he was living in was about to change drastically. This means that the flood was not simply an event that came and went and that's it...over!  No...It was a truly cataclysmic event that brought about a slow and gradual change in the geographical features of Arabia, and forever.

When the sky ceased and the earth finally "swallowed up" its water (as the Quran tells us), the flood receded, but left the land devastated in its wake. Slowly and gradually, the entire region would turn into a desert.

So yes, it could very well have been a volcanic eruption not of fire, but of steam or very hot boiling water, which burst out from the volcanic openings.  (Volcanoes don't just spit out fire. They can also eject ash clouds, steam, superheated rocks, and boiling water - if there is an underwater basin in their path.  This is a scientific fact).

The reason I didn't go into all these details in the "Road of the Patriarch" thread was to avoid making it overly long.  The subject of Noah's flood warrants a thread of its own. But I was fully aware of the theory that the flood was caused by underground water sources bursting. And since member Mazhar brought to our attention the phenomenon of geysers, I decided to go into the details of this event.  Hence the "tannour" mentioned in the Quranic verse is a volcanic opening in the Surat mountains, overlooking the highlands of Asir.

Also, the land that Noah lived in depended on rain for its agriculture, as is made evident from the Quran [11:52]  and  [71:11].

Mesopotamia, like Egypt, did NOT depend on rain for its agriculture. It depended on irrigation of the PERMANENT rivers (Tigris and Euphrates).

See this: http://www.ehow.com/info_8331317_comparison-ancient-mesopotamian-water-sources.html

The flood took place in Arabia, in the same region where the successors of Noah's people, Aad, built their lofty dwellings afterwards (thinking they could be safe from floods?), and not far from where Abraham, Saleh, Lot (whose town was destroyed by a rain of volcanic rocks) lived.

So whether you interpret "tannour" as "geyser" or "volcano", in either case, the geographical features do not match Iraq.

Now, try convincing Noon dhe plume and Layth of these facts.

Peace...

________________________

Mazhar

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Re: التَّنُّورُ meanings and perception-"The Geyser"
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2011, 09:10:22 AM »
Quote
Quote
People drown in water not oven
I never said that. I said the eruption of the "oven" was the SIGN for Noah to board the ship.

Where did I say that you said this or that.

I just referred to the general perception of the word people mention in lexicons as Oven.

".....denotes a kind of oven, open and narrow at the top, wide at the bottom, in the bottom of which fire is lighted, and in which the bread, in the form of flat cakes, is generally stuck on the sides for baking. This is also made in the same shape by making a hole in the earth. This is a sort of brazier."
 The Grand Qur'aan has, however, exposed its meanings by using it in the scene of actual happenings.
Therefore/in response We communicated to him that, "you skillfully make the ship before Our eyes, and as per Our communication/instructions. Thereby, when Our command is reached and the "Geyser" of area turbulently gushes forth, thereat/at that point in time you enter in the ship from all pairing plants/mammals, that you have; And you should not address Me about those who have committed wrong. Indeed they are the ones who are to be drowned. [23:27]

If the word referred to a known volcano in the area who would he understand the mystery of ship floating in lave and people drowining in lava erupted from volcano?

Allah, the Exalted does not pose puzzles to the Messengers to solve at their own. All the words indicate only ghussing forth of water from the known and understood geyser of their area. The phenomenon and shape of geyser is quite similar as that of underpitched Tanour in villages of most of the countries. Further, it is evident that ghussing forth of water was not something that created for them a state of panic. He was told to upload things in the ship at the point in time when the water has ghushed forth. The people were also not in panicy state which is evident from the reply of his son. But he was not aware that this time how much water is going to come up, suddenly a wave came between both two, resulting in drowning of his son before his eyes, obviously when the ship had started sailing slowly and gradually. The ship will start sailing only when sufficient water has gathered in the valley. The first ship was manufactured by Noah alahissalam under direct supervision of Allah, the Exalted. The Grand Qur'aan in fact vieos the scene if we are not lost in the bewilderment of ice age.


People drown in water not oven



theNabster

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Re: التَّنُّورُ meanings and perception-"The Geyser"
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2011, 09:54:12 AM »
Peace Bros Mazhar and pazuzu,

and thanks for very enlightening clarifications, masha' a Allah...

may I add this:

in colloquial Arabic, "tufa'ur" also means "emitting vapours"...

youssef4342

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Re: التَّنُّورُ meanings and perception-"The Geyser"
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2011, 11:29:46 AM »
There were dozens of lakes and rivers, which indicates that some 10,000 to 8,000 years ago, Arabia was very different from what it is today. The peninsula underwent a dramatic change in its climate and geography, as vast expanses of land, once covered with lush forests and grassy plains gradually started to turn into deserts. These green expanses began receding, and are now limited to the mountainous south western region of Asir and Yemen, along the Red Sea coast. 

Peace everyone  :peace:  :group:
I agree on the Geysers part, and this had to be many geysers as per (54:12). It Also was a double action, Rain from the sky, and water from inside the earth.

Moreover to Pazuzu, I agree on what you said about a possible past geology of Arabia. The Quran gives us a picture of what the area around what Queen of Sheba control was. Their environment was changed from being a lush-like gardens in 34:15 into the seemingly opposite in 34:16 because of their unappreciativeness.
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adjwi

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Re: التَّنُّورُ meanings and perception-"The Geyser"
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2012, 11:56:39 AM »
Good day to all,

I never said that. I said the eruption of the "oven" was the SIGN for Noah to board the ship.

Since you mentioned "geyser", I will bring to your attention what some scientists, who have studied the topography and soil of Arabia (and taken satellite images of the land) have said concerning this issue:

Geologist Farooq Al-Baz, the head of the Center for Remote Sensing at Boston University in Boston, Massachusetts, and former director at NASA, has confirmed the presence of enormous quantities of water under the sands of the Rubb'al-Khali desert in Arabia, as well as several dry river beds, among them a trench which extends from the Surat mountains, all the way to Iraq. Apparently, a giant river once bisected Arabia. The source of this river was an underground basin and caves in the Surat mountains, and it flowed eastward until it joined with the Euphrates. The size of the canyon it left behind indicates that this river was wider than the Nile of Africa.

This was confirmed by satellite images taken by space shuttle Endeavor in 1994. 

Check this out:


Satellite image showing giant river bed running across Arabian peninsula.

This giant river canyon is called "Wadi Hafr al-Batten"    حفر الباطن , and it runs parallel to a trans-Arabia highway, which joins Saudi Arabia with Iraq.

Here is another satellite photo showing various branches of this river (note the geographical feature known as "Harrat al-Rahat", one of the largest volcanic fields in Saudi Arabia, represented by a triangle, near the bottom of the image)


Al-Baz confirmed that the Rub' al Khali desert sits on top of what could be the largest underground water basin in all of Asia.
Source: Article posted on Al-Jazeera.net - Reuters Archive - posted on 4/2/2002.

This is not the only river that dried up in Arabia. There were dozens of lakes and rivers, which indicates that some 10,000 to 8,000 years ago, Arabia was very different from what it is today. The peninsula underwent a dramatic change in its climate and geography, as vast expanses of land, once covered with lush forests and grassy plains gradually started to turn into deserts. These green expanses began receding, and are now limited to the mountainous south western region of Asir and Yemen, along the Red Sea coast. 

This scientific fact has led geologists to draw imaginary illustrations of what Arabia must have looked like in those ages before memory. In his book "Origins of Arabia",    Andrew Thompson gives us his vision of prehistoric Arabia:

What Arabia looked like at the time of Adam

Apparently, the cause of this change was the recession of water after a giant flood had taken place in the region.

The Quran tells us that the primary cause of the flood was not only torrential rain,  but also the explosion of fountains, which spilled forth enormous quantities of water onto the land surface.

{So We opened the gates of the sky with pouring water * And We caused springs to gush out of the earth. Thus the waters met to a command which had been measured}...(54:11,12)

So what caused the springs to gush forth?

Here is the scentific theory:

Apparently, while Europe was still caught in the last throes of the Ice Age, Arabia was teeming with life of all sorts. As the great glaciers of central and southern Europe began to melt (around 14,000 BC to 10,000 BC), they caused the sea level in the entire ancient world to rise by no less than 200 meters, and also caused enormous pressure on the tektonic plates (along the Afro-Asian fault line which runs underneath the Red Sea). Eventually, this put pressure on the underground water basins, causing them to explode outwards.

Obviously, the only natural chimneys through which this explosion can take place are either the fissures in the rocks (springs), or the openings of volcanos.

The following is a horizontal (west - to - east) cross-sectional view of Arabia, showing what happened there, as a result of the melting of the great glaciers in Europe.



The rectangle at the top shows the status of the underwater basins before 15,000 B.C. (The water expanse on the left is the Red Sea. The volcano in the middle represents the Surat mountains, and the water expanse on the right is the Arabian Gulf).

The bottom rectangle shows what happened as a result of the gradual melting of the ice sheets in southern Europe and Asia Minor. Pressure is exerted on the Arabian Shield (Central part of Arabia, where the Rub-al Khali Desert now lies),.

So, as you can see, torrential rain was not the prime cause of the great flood. The prime cause was the elevation of water levels in the great bodies of water surrounding Arabia (the Red Sea, Indian Ocean and Arabian Gulf), due to the melting of the glaciers, and the pressure it put on the underground water sources, causing them to burst from fissures and volcanic openings.



A  "tannour" in the Najd area of Arabia. Note the mass of black volcanic rock near the opening. These patches exist all over the place in Saudi Arabia and Yemen, and are called "Harrat"

Now, about the phrase: "Fara al-tannuru"  (boiling of the oven), it simply denotes the sign given to Noah that the region he was living in was about to change drastically. This means that the flood was not simply an event that came and went and that's it...over!  No...It was a truly cataclysmic event that brought about a slow and gradual change in the geographical features of Arabia, and forever.

When the sky ceased and the earth finally "swallowed up" its water (as the Quran tells us), the flood receded, but left the land devastated in its wake. Slowly and gradually, the entire region would turn into a desert.

So yes, it could very well have been a volcanic eruption not of fire, but of steam or very hot boiling water, which burst out from the volcanic openings.  (Volcanoes don't just spit out fire. They can also eject ash clouds, steam, superheated rocks, and boiling water - if there is an underwater basin in their path.  This is a scientific fact).

The reason I didn't go into all these details in the "Road of the Patriarch" thread was to avoid making it overly long.  The subject of Noah's flood warrants a thread of its own. But I was fully aware of the theory that the flood was caused by underground water sources bursting. And since member Mazhar brought to our attention the phenomenon of geysers, I decided to go into the details of this event.  Hence the "tannour" mentioned in the Quranic verse is a volcanic opening in the Surat mountains, overlooking the highlands of Asir.

Also, the land that Noah lived in depended on rain for its agriculture, as is made evident from the Quran [11:52]  and  [71:11].

Mesopotamia, like Egypt, did NOT depend on rain for its agriculture. It depended on irrigation of the PERMANENT rivers (Tigris and Euphrates).

See this: http://www.ehow.com/info_8331317_comparison-ancient-mesopotamian-water-sources.html

The flood took place in Arabia, in the same region where the successors of Noah's people, Aad, built their lofty dwellings afterwards (thinking they could be safe from floods?), and not far from where Abraham, Saleh, Lot (whose town was destroyed by a rain of volcanic rocks) lived.

So whether you interpret "tannour" as "geyser" or "volcano", in either case, the geographical features do not match Iraq.

Now, try convincing Noon dhe plume and Layth of these facts.

Peace...

________________________


I just like to thank Pazuzu for presenting this information which I had never come across before. This explanation surely makes great sense to me and I'm left surprised it hasn't received more comments from other members.

Peace,

adjwi

farida

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Re: التَّنُّورُ meanings and perception-"The Geyser"
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2012, 02:19:52 PM »
Good day to all,

I just like to thank Pazuzu for presenting this information which I had never come across before. This explanation surely makes great sense to me and I'm left surprised it hasn't received more comments from other members.

Peace,

adjwi