Community Needs > Pilgrimage (Hajj)
Free Minds' Consensus on Hajj
Layth:
Dear Paradox,
Reading this thread, you seem to have a pre-set notion of what is right and wrong, and only if you see that same notion will you call a person "Muslim".
Your jab at me stating that alcohol is permissible is a clear example of this, where you have not studied the subject thoroughly, but have concluded that it cannot be permisible.
Different people have different levels of undertsanding. Even the prophets Solomon and David had a different understanding when they were judging on the issue of the damaged crop (see 21:78-79), but Solomon in this case was the one with the correct understanding (does that make David a "non-Muslim" by your definition - because he differed?).
One of the most beautiful verses that teaches us how to deal with the differing opinoins/findings is:
39:18 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.
Paradox Uncreated:
And what is the best of alcohol vs non-alcohol, Layth?
"Those who follow the best of it" particulary suits a lot of modern christian thinking. Since the bible has been distorted, if you follow "the best" of it, you ignore the worst distortions.
Which ofcourse is a great mindset, in understanding 4:34 also, which I commented on.
I just have to say that, if you make permissible what is "of shayan".. Shaytan is a mad-creep polytheist. That is not the Qurans exact wording, but if you put togheter "feeble cunning" "deviance" "transgression" "polytheism" "follows his desire" etc. I am sure you understand that has to be right. I have gained some understaning on who shaytan is.
Who do you think is waiting after years of intoxicant use, tired and weared out? Who was it that you worshipped?
Alcohol is even called "spirits".
Alot of people have likes that are in conflict with religion, little idols that they carry around. There the Quran states, that you shall give up your life, in favour of God. You have to give up your alcohol, hasish, DMT etc. You see all those people in the forum? You think they would be here, if intoxicants were illegal, God praised, and satan rejected?
If the later were true, your forum would be more like a believers forum.
Everyone shall be recompensated without injustice.
Peace.
silverquin:
Speaking of alcohol... All kinds of intoxicants are prohibited in Islam. Not just alcohol, but heroin, marijuana, cigarette, etc. End of case.
Source : They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say: "In them is great harm, and a benefit for mankind; but their harm is greater than their benefit." And they ask you how much are they to give, Say: "The excess." It is thus that God clarifies for you the revelations that you may think. (2:219)
Hopefully you know what i mean ::)
Paradox Uncreated:
[30:31-32] You shall submit to Him, reverence Him, observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), and - whatever you do - do not ever fall into idol worship. (Do not fall in idol worship,) like those who divide their religion into sects; each party rejoicing with what they have.
[6:162-164] Say, "My Contact Prayers (Salat), my worship practices, my life and my death, are all devoted absolutely to GOD alone, the Lord of the universe.He has no partner. This is what I am commanded to believe, and I am the first to submit." Say, "Shall I seek other than GOD as a lord, when He is the Lord of all things? No soul benefits except from its own works, and none bears the burden of another. Ultimately, you return to your Lord, then He informs you regarding all your disputes."
And prayer is again to be godconscious, and shaytan keeps you from being godconscious with intoxicants.
Kaiokenred:
--- Quote from: Paradox Uncreated on December 18, 2011, 11:37:43 AM ---[30:31-32] You shall submit to Him, reverence Him, observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), and - whatever you do - do not ever fall into idol worship. (Do not fall in idol worship,) like those who divide their religion into sects; each party rejoicing with what they have.
[6:162-164] Say, "My Contact Prayers (Salat), my worship practices, my life and my death, are all devoted absolutely to GOD alone, the Lord of the universe.He has no partner. This is what I am commanded to believe, and I am the first to submit." Say, "Shall I seek other than GOD as a lord, when He is the Lord of all things? No soul benefits except from its own works, and none bears the burden of another. Ultimately, you return to your Lord, then He informs you regarding all your disputes."
And prayer is again to be godconscious, and shaytan keeps you from being godconscious with intoxicants.
--- End quote ---
And what if you don't get drunk? Or only do it once a year before sleeping? And by only drinking a little?
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