Other Issues > Christianity/Judaism/Others
Jesus Vs Christianity ??
Student of Allah:
Shalom,
The topic is Matthew 5:17-20
Let me paste some translations:
NIV
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
KJV
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
GW
17“Don’t ever think that I came to set aside Moses’ Teachings or the Prophets. I didn’t come to set them aside but to make them come true. 18 I can guarantee this truth: Until the earth and the heavens disappear, neither a period nor a comma will disappear from Moses’ Teachings before everything has come true. 19 So whoever sets aside any command that seems unimportant and teaches others to do the same will be unimportant in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever does and teaches what the commands say will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 I can guarantee that unless you live a life that has God’s approval and do it more faithfully than the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Can someone please put me out of my misery ??
Explain please.
How does these sayings of Jesus translate to "Go to hell with the laws ????"
If my brain is still working, this translates into HOLD STRONGLY TO THE LAWS.
PLEASE, if you are a Christian, explain it. If you are an Ex-Christian, please explain what was your idea about these statements.
PEACE
------------------ Student of Allah
amuslim:
Peace Student of Allah,
Christians are very capricious individuals. They try to rationalize their views when it is very illogical. Although I see this in the Muslim communities, they don't deify the Prophet.
On topic, there are probably ways that they talk their way out of this one. I'm pretty sure answering-islam has a rebuttal to your question/argument as they seem to cover every single argument that Muslims have against Christians.
A side note. I know you like Zakir Naik, I do too even amidst some things that seem to be of his own invention (ie. muneer, tagleed, etc.). I also like his mentor Ahmed Deedat a lot. They recommend the RSV and I think that would be the best translation to use, since it is "backed by 32 eminent scholars, of the highest source. Backed by 50 denominations". They have made many revisions, important ones, as they go to the oldest source. Among many things, threw away the word "begotton" in John 3:16 as well as the John 5:7 reference that supports the Trinity.
Peace
Hoppean:
--- Quote from: Student of Allah on December 13, 2011, 11:59:49 AM ---
Can someone please put me out of my misery ??
Explain please.
How does these sayings of Jesus translate to "Go to hell with the laws ????"
If my brain is still working, this translates into HOLD STRONGLY TO THE LAWS.
PLEASE, if you are a Christian, explain it. If you are an Ex-Christian, please explain what was your idea about these statements.
--- End quote ---
Christ fulfilled the ceremonial laws revealed to Moses, the moral laws revealed are eternal and unchangeable. I would recommend studying the Bible, then the doctrines of the various groups calling themseilves "Christian", and then decide which is biblical, and which is not.
Student of Allah:
Shalom,
Thanks both of you.
@amuslim : I dont mind which version of Bible they come up with.
These verses alone tells the story. Let me back up my claim with the verses following verse 17-20 to prove my case.
21“You have heard that it was said to your ancestors, ‘Never murder. Whoever murders will answer for it in court.’
22 But I can guarantee that whoever is angry with another believer will answer for it in court. Whoever calls another believer an insulting name will answer for it in the highest court. Whoever calls another believer a fool will answer for it in hellfire.
23 “So if you are offering your gift at the altar and remember there that another believer has something against you,
24 leave your gift at the altar. First go away and make peace with that person. Then come back and offer your gift.
25 “Make peace quickly with your opponent while you are on the way to court with him. Otherwise, he will hand you over to the judge. Then the judge will hand you over to an officer, who will throw you into prison.
26 I can guarantee this truth: You will never get out until you pay every penny of your fine
So... we see that Jesus is only telling you to strongly hold by the LAWS in verses 17-21. And from there onwards, he behaves like FUNDAMENTALIST, just look at verse 21 onwards. He is stating an Old Testament rule and explaining how his understanding is far more FUNDAMENTALIST and CONSERVATIVE than that. If anything... Jesus is asking you to be more conservative and practicing.
I can't take it anymore... How can ANYONE be blind not to see this ???? How much more clearer could these words be ? Ahmed Deedat was right, if you read the Bible and ask Christians these questions, there is no Christian that was born that could ever answer these questions.... ofcourse without giving first priority to words of others instead of Jesus.
Its amazing how Jesus's mouth has to be ductaped for Christianity to survive. And ofcourse how Qur'an has to be ignored for traditional Islam to survive. Oh..God.. just imagine what the prophets/messengers went through with people........God bless them for their service !!
PEACE
-------------------- Student of Allah
youssef4342:
Peace :peace:
There are Messianic Jews who still follow the Torah.
Yes Jesus did give more leinient, "Philanthropic" new commandments, however, he did not "go away with the law".
Jesus might have been a Kariate (Following Torah as scripture alone) as per his condemnation of the Jewish Traditions which sometimes went against the Laws of God (i.e Nullified them)
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