artificial insemination

[stillearning]

AOA all

Just to add my two bits worth:

If the only function of sex is to reproduce does that mean it is haram/illegal etc between the infertile couple.

Recently a women concieved using her dead husbands sperm, which had been stored earlier, by means of AI. So was she being lewd or what ever the word is.
regards

[mmkhan]

I see and understand your point. But they are hardly "together" and the donation would not make them sexual partners. If she needed a kidney and he donated one, it wouldn't be forbidden. If she wanted a cup of sugar/flour/whatever and he was willing, it wouldn't be forbidden. Why would this case be any different?

Salaam,

Marriage has nothing to do with kidney and a cup of sugar... you already know that. Even without marriage you can share or donate these things, but sex is something that has to be lawful which is done by marriage. Anything in its relation as AI is also not lawful [as per my understanding] until they get married.

And who will be the dad and mom of the baby, the unlawful father? I don't think so. Hope you understand my point.

Women are only lawful for men after getting married, what this mean to you?


May Allah guide us all to His true path 
mmKhan

[Abdul-Hadi]

Greetings and Peace, all 

Salaam,

Marriage has nothing to do with kidney and a cup of sugar... you already know that. Even without marriage you can share or donate these things, but sex is something that has to be lawful which is done by marriage. Anything in its relation as AI is also not lawful [as per my understanding] until they get married.

And who will be the dad and mom of the baby, the unlawful father? I don't think so. Hope you understand my point.

Women are only lawful for men after getting married, what this mean to you?


May Allah guide us all to His true path 
mmKhan

AI has nothing to do with marriage either...that was the point! Is there something inherently "dirty" about organs or bodily fluids?  What is the REAL difference between a kidney, a pint of blood, or a few cc's of sperm? Why can one donate a kidney or blood, but not sperm? Donating sperm is not sex any more than donating blood is sex!

You do know that cloning can be done from all types of cells now, right? The cells can be made to undifferentiate from even skin cells--no longer are fetal cells required. The point is that an entire creature can be made from just a few cells--the entire process is asexual. Is someone now going to try to tell me that cloning is only possible in marriage--or that the clear and complete Qur'an says that cloning is forbidden? 

The mom of the baby will be pretty obvious...momma's babies, daddies maybes!  Calling the father unlawful is loaded language--in multiple ways. Although the male was the source of the sperm, he is hardly a "father"...and the "unlawful" is per your understanding. To you your understanding; to me mine.

About 16% of all children only live with one parent. VERY few of these cases involve AI. If children only having one parent is a concern, I suggest concentrating here first.

Source:http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/10/single-parents-around-the-world/

Since AI is not sex, it would mean that "only lawful in marriage" doesn't apply--this is what it means to me.

We all go by our best understanding. If you don't agree with AI, don't donate sperm!  I have a strategic advantage if I donate and you don't--the "fruit of my loins" will populate the earth! <just kidding> Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and consequences--but nobody is entitled to (en)force opinion.

ALLAH knows best.

 

~Abdul-Hadi

[mmkhan]

The mom of the baby will be pretty obvious...momma's babies, daddies maybes!  Calling the father unlawful is loaded language--in multiple ways. Although the male was the source of the sperm, he is hardly a "father"...and the "unlawful" is per your understanding. To you your understanding; to me mine.

Salaam brother,

You did not answer my question.

Women are only lawful for men after getting married, what this mean to you?

Another simple question [just wanted to know your understanding on this].

Q. Is sex outside marriage allowed?

Please feel free if you like to answer, if you are not comfortable with my question please ignore them. And I agree with you on the above highlighted part from your post.


May Allah guide us all to His true path 
mmKhan

[Abdul-Hadi]

Greetings and Peace, all 

My comments in red.

Salaam brother,

You did not answer my question.

Women are only lawful for men after getting married, what this mean to you?

Beg pardon. When I wrote "Since AI is not sex, it would mean that "only lawful in marriage" doesn't apply--this is what it means to me.", this was intended to address the question. In other words, this passage is not relevant to AI.

Another simple question [just wanted to know your understanding on this].

Q. Is sex outside marriage allowed?

No.

Please feel free if you like to answer, if you are not comfortable with my question please ignore them. And I agree with you on the above highlighted part from your post.


May Allah guide us all to His true path 
mmKhan

ALLAH knows best.

 

~Abdul-Hadi

[Student of Allah]

Shalom Aleikhom,

Interesting indeed.

-Is the soul purpose of marriage is to legalize sex ?
-Am I wrong to assume that marriage comes with responsibilities that involve family, financial matters/etc and ensures a better upbringing of the child ?
-If that is correct, are you willfully making a child an orphan by AI when you are not his mother's husband ?

Peace
------------- Student of Allah

[Abdul-Hadi]

Greetings and Peace, all 

Shalom Aleikhom,

Interesting indeed.

-Is the soul purpose of marriage is to legalize sex ?
-Am I wrong to assume that marriage comes with responsibilities that involve family, financial matters/etc and ensures a better upbringing of the child ?
-If that is correct, are you willfully making a child an orphan by AI when you are not his mother's husband ?

Peace
------------- Student of Allah

A woman considering AI may be married. Some people lump AI in the same category as sexual intercourse and thus say that it is the same as adultery. I disagree, based on my understanding. No matter how emotional a person may get, AI is not and can not be sexual intercourse.

Is marriage/adoption/fostering/mentoring better? In most all cases, a resounding YES! Does this mean that other ways are prohibited just because other ways are "better" or more traditional? Not hardly! A woman wants to pass on her genetics the same as a man does. This is only possible if she bears a child. Also, most people want to adopt very young babies if they adopt. For this reason, there is a very limited supply of very young babies. If a woman wants to raise a young baby without being married (and without being unchaste) she will either need to be wealthy or utilize AI. Should only the wealthy be able to adopt the very young? 

Who is to say that the mother is not financially able/responsible? The mother likely has friends/relatives--or even a husband. One would hope that a woman considering AI would be able to shoulder the attendant responsibility--there is a certain element of deliberation involved! The child would be planned for, and definitely wanted.

AQ tells us not to kill children for fear of poverty. There has to be a child in the first place! Marriage brings many benefits, but it isn't the "kiss of doom" for a child to be raised by a single parent--especially when the child is anticipated and planned and cherished. Marriage doesn't always last. Life of a parent does not always outlast the childhood of a child, either.

There are millions of children that are currently in single family households--many of these children will grow up to be good adults. Then again, some people have two parents and still turn out bad; having two parents is no guarantee of a good outcome. Divorce is more likely to result in a child having a single parent--and divorce also tends to eat resources that could be otherwise used (to raise a family) as well.

Moreover, a child would have to have no living parents to be an orphan. So long as one parent is alive, the child is not an orphan.

6:151 Say: "Come let me recite what your Lord has made unlawful for you: that you should not set up anything with Him; and do good to your parents; and do not kill your children for fear of poverty, We provide for you and for them; and do not come near lewdness, what is evident of it and what is subtle; and do not take the life which GOD has made forbidden, except in justice. That is what He enjoined you that you may comprehend."

For those truly interested in the welfare of children--more matter and less art. Do something positive! There are many children with NO family. Adopt/mentor/foster.

ALLAH knows best.

 

~Abdul-Hadi

[mmkhan]

Greetings and Peace, all 

My comments in red.

ALLAH knows best.

 

~Abdul-Hadi

Salaam brother Hadi,

Thanks for your reply. I am sorry to disagree with you, my understanding is different than yours.


May Allah increase us in knowledge, correct our mistakes and guide us all to His true path 
mmKhan

[youssef4342]

May God ALmighty Resolve this Dispute
One must consider 70:31, anyone seeking beyond using their private parts with theier spouces is transgressing (this can be extended to your own self)

Marriage makes Sexual relationships Legal. With Sexual Relationships, Preganancy is a conditional case. If Marriage was not law-fying sexual relationships, then why don't all people just use AI and maybe get over with the hasel of finding a husband and going through marriage? If people don't do that, then it can be reasoned that you cannot simply take/lend somebody your semen. Moreover, Will the Husband or the person lending the semen ever take responsibility of the child? Is he going to include the child in His Will like God Almighty instructs us to do so? Is he going to provide the mother? etc
 
I personally would think that adopting is a better way. You spare a kid form growing up in centers, with maybe no close family or bond. You reward yourself because you'd be doing something nice, and would be doing something unselfish, yes some people want their OWN kids, how better it is to adopt a kid and pray for that child to become a better person? DO you not see the blessing? would God not reward you more than if you had your own kid?
Plus that way,  i would think you would have a better stance, you did something good, and provided someone else's child, and took care of an orphan.