Author Topic: RK: Follow the Message or the Messenger?  (Read 4775 times)

Student of Allah

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Re: RK: Follow the Message or the Messenger?
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2011, 01:10:40 PM »
Many of those who follow the Quran alone and yet reject and even insult Rashad Khalifa have received the message indirectly from Rashad.

Peace,
Edip

Salam,

I think, the way you intend for me to interpret what you said is : Lets say Rashad is the messenger, you are his Sahabi. You may have your Sahabas that learnt from you and spread the message. Many people got the message indirectly through your and Rashad's Sahabas. Hmm... makes sense.

Still, I must assert the fact that almost all the Qur'an alone people that I know "in person" never even gave a damn about knowing who Rashad was. They simply read the popular translations like me, and even those translations helped them accept Allah's message. And the very few number of individuals that know who Rashad was , they were informed of it by me, but they aren't interested (even though it shocked them that Rashad claimed messengership ). Rashad was a semi-traditionalist Qur'an alone promoter. My point is, being in agreement with his statement "Follow only the Qur'an" does not mean I received the message from him.

PEACE
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Edip Yuksel

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Re: RK: Follow the Message or the Messenger?
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2011, 07:11:13 PM »
Well, we are all responsible for our choices and words.
Peace,
Edip
Edip Yuksel, J.D.
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Each of us must use our own mind in pursuit of knowledge. (17:36; 10:100; 39:17-18; 41:53; 42:21; 6:114-116; 10:36; 12:111; 20:114; 21:7; 35:28; 38:29).

Student of Allah

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Re: RK: Follow the Message or the Messenger?
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2011, 08:55:10 PM »
Well, we are all responsible for our choices and words.
Peace,
Edip

Shalom,

would you mind providing the tafsir for the above ayah ? I am a bit worried since my comment was not intended to be against anyone in general. Just shared my observations.

Peace be on you, may Allah be pleased with you

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IAMOP

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Re: RK: Follow the Message or the Messenger?
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2011, 10:03:33 PM »
The messenger is the messenger.

The ruh delivers the message to humans
The human delivers the message to other humans

Many messengers of God: all who act as messenger speaking Al-Haqq are messenger
Speaking in the name of Al-Haqq free of opinion and delusion
As you fall asleep and wake up to a new day
So shall you enter your grave and arise to the last


"Now no person knows what delights of the eye are kept hidden for them - as a reward for their deeds" (32:17)

Maha

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Re: RK: Follow the Message or the Messenger?
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2011, 04:07:44 AM »
Peace

And rashad khalifa got the Quran from traditionalist Muslims.
And about the insult. Isn't free minds explaining Islam by insulting others instead of using the best means possible? Do you expect honest people to waste their time here? The way free minds wil rather attract those who like to make fun instead in my opinion!

Peace

Peace upon you.

I would highly recommend you to criticize instead of attacking.

Peace
“God has no religion” Gandhi

“We can live without religion and meditation, but we cannot survive without human affection.” - Dalai Lama

Maha

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Re: RK: Follow the Message or the Messenger?
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2011, 04:11:03 AM »
The messenger is the messenger.

The ruh delivers the message to humans
The human delivers the message to other humans

Many messengers of God: all who act as messenger speaking Al-Haqq are messenger
Speaking in the name of Al-Haqq free of opinion and delusion

Your interpretation is quite close to my own view on the word 'messenger'. When Quran ask us to follow the messenger, it is not limited to one person or one messenger, but to whoever speaks al-haq.
“God has no religion” Gandhi

“We can live without religion and meditation, but we cannot survive without human affection.” - Dalai Lama

youssef4342

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Re: RK: Follow the Message or the Messenger?
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2011, 08:51:58 AM »
Peace Maha :peace:
A supporting verse to your view is
"Follow those who do NOT ask for a wage, and they are guided" (36:31)
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Alladin

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Re: RK: Follow the Message or the Messenger?
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2011, 10:46:03 AM »
Peace,

Peace upon you.

I would highly recommend you to criticize instead of attacking.

Peace

Can you give me an example of how it could be done? I sometimes see the words "These so called solars" and to me that is insluting people. But you are right that the way I tried to explain that is not the best way.

Thanks and thanks in advance

Peace Maha :peace:
A supporting verse to your view is
"Follow those who do NOT ask for a wage, and they are guided" (36:31)


Peace youssef4342,

The reference you gave is incorrect:
Quote
Do they not consider how many of the generations have We destroyed before them, because they do not turn to them?(36:31)

I have tried to guess which one you meant by looking to a chapter before and after, but with no succes. Can you please put the correct one?

Peace
And follow not that of which you have not the knowledge; surely the hearing and the sight and the brain, all of these, shall be questioned about that. [17:36]

I am not here to defend free minds point of view, but for knowledge! (why? see 49:11)

If I don't respond, it doesn't mean that I (dis)agree

youssef4342

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Re: RK: Follow the Message or the Messenger?
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2011, 11:28:05 AM »
Sorry, it should be verse 21 not 31
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uq

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Re: RK: Follow the Message or the Messenger?
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2012, 02:12:42 PM »
Peace all,

I’ve stated this many a time, and I’ll say it again. The fact that some people are actively refuting the messengership of Rashad Khalifa serves only to prove the Quran right when it speaks about those who cannot fathom, nor accept, the insipidness of a human messenger.

I would like to make two points on this subject, deriving my argument primarily on the first several verses of chapter 38:

1. Personally I believe, and I could be wrong, that such people abstract the idea of messengership in their minds. They see messengers of God as possessing super-human qualities, or as being transcendent creatures. Then, when a messenger is sent to them, they are faced with the reality of how boringly human these messengers really are. As a consequence, they fail to reconcile their abstracted beliefs with the rawness of reality. That’s one aspect.

2. An additional aspect is that of ego. We as people, and I include myself, cannot bear to hear someone say “I am better than you”, especially if done in a subliminal way. Thus, when Rashad Khalifa said “I am a messenger of God”, the egos of many people cringed with disgust. However, their sentiments are unfounded. This is as a consequence of their abstraction of the idea of messengership.

As to the proposition that Rashad played no role in spreading the message of Quran alone, one will only need to take a look at the correlation between the time of Rashad’s activities in the 1980s and the global spread of Quran alone which ensued soon after. The correlation – to say the least – is uncanny, don’t you think?

A strong demonstration is the following: how many members of this forum have followed the Quran alone for more than 20 years? Maybe a few, but not many at all.

Thus, let us not preclude the possibility, and let us not ignore the correlation.

If you choose not to accept Rashad Khalifa as a messenger of God, then at the very least have the basic courtesy of accepting him as a fellow believer who followed, and advocated, the worship of God alone.

I have no doubt, no sliver of doubt, that Rashad Khalifa was a messenger sent to us from God, because it’s nothing new, that’s what God’s been doing since the time of Noah.

But what has passed, has passed. So let us leave the dead to rest in peace, and let us all be friendly to each other and aid each other in understanding as one, strong, united community.

How merciful of God to have sent human messengers to humans throughout history, and to have given us books to read, and to have taught us how to read, and to have given us minds with which to reflect, and to have given us sight, hearing, and the senses, and to have guided us to the true path. Many thanks to God.
uq