Other Issues > Submitters / Code 19
RK: Follow the Message or the Messenger?
youssef4342:
Should we follow Rashad Khalifa the Messenger or his Message?
Followers of Rashad out there have to realize that God Almighty himself states that he allows the devil to put falsehood in EVERY prophet/messenger he sends [/u]. Then The Almighty rules with his Revelations/Words and leaves what the devil fabricated to be a test !
Let us reason! DO you not think that the Almighty would test the so called believers of Rashad Khalifa's Message of "Quran Alone" After he has given them a profound mathematiclal miracle to TEST THEIR FAITH????
Rashad Khalifa was a Human Messenger , and we know directly from the Quran that human messengers err and make mistakes.
The Quran emphasises that Human messengers are not infallible, and that they are apt to make mistakes just like anyone else. Many examples are given in the Quran for specific mistakes committed by various messengers and prophets. We note that Muhammad is reprimanded in the Quran six times for mistakes he committed. Mistakes for other messengers include Moses killing an innocent man, Jonah abandoning God's mission, Solomon forgetting his prayer, Joseph (when he was in prison) putting his trust and fate in the ruler's hand when he should have remembered that God is the Only One to decide his fate.
Now, Rashad was to say vehement about his idealogy of following the Quran alone. Even in one of his videos(big debate), he stated that [n] "If i tell you to do anything that is not in the Quran, DO NOT DO IT!" [/b]Thus Rashad's message, is what should be followed, not his human self!
Please Reason, do you not think that God Almighty will test you? Indeed he will! He Even states so in 29:2!!!
Note Rashad's own words when he wrote: "The moment they seek guidance from ANYTHING besides the Quran, no matter how "right" it seems, they fall into Satan's trap" (appendix 19)
Let's reason!
Where is the 2.5% charity that Rashad states to spend? Is it not from traditional sources??? How Outright Hypocritical it is to say that we should spend 2.5% while it is not in the Quran at all, when the submitters/followers of Rashad claim that they follow the Quran Alone! God ALmighty did not send messengers to "decieve" us, but messengers to disceren and differentiate us to the truthful, hypocrits, disbelievers etc.
Futhuremore, Is it not illogical to think that people during Abraham's time would give 2.5% of their income? Tell me, how much is 2.5% of an apple? (Note that the bible cites a charity/tithe of 10% that was given by Abraham himself, and succeded by people all the way through the New Testament (Jesus Confirmed the Tithe 10%). Thus again, the 2.5% is wrong). In the light of the Quran, God Almighty answers the question what/how much should they give, to an open answer of the "extra/afw" that we have in the Quran (2:219)!
Moreover, the 5 prayers a day theory is wrong because it cannot be supported from the Quran because, since there are only 3 prayers mentioned by NAME in the Quran (Fajr 24:58, middle 2:238, and Isha 24:58) (Surely His Dominating, Most Supreme, High Majesty assures us that he did not leave anything out of the Quran 6:38. Now how are do we go about to name the other 2 salats according to the 5 salat theory? Salat al zuhr and salat al-3sr are but fabrications not found in the Quran
Now to conform that Submission/Islam is the religion of Abraham, we find that there are only 3 prayers mention in the previous scriptures as well: See in the Old testement's times for prayer evening, morning, and noon in psalm 55:17, and strictly the Prophet Daniel praying 3 times a day in Daniel 6:10) and the New Testament's times for prayer 3rth, 6th, and 9th hours. Salat is equivelant of the Aramaic 'sloota' (Prayer) and the Hebrew Tfillah (prayer) or Amidah (standing prayer) Which is basically the 3 daily prayers, consisting of 19 Blessings to be recited: Watch the Original Jewish Amidah (Standing Prayer) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aHWASyMjwg
Submitters like to bring about how the 24434 prayer Sequential Rak'a system is a miracle because it is divisable by the number 19. However, this is not the case since 1) the sequence is divisible by 19 even if one reverses the sequence. See: www.quran-islam.org/main_topics/islam/pillars/the_code_19_(P1203).html
And 2) because there is absolutely no such thing as a rak'a system in the Quran!
Also, It is worthy to note that in Sura 74, God tells us that the code of 19 is employed specifically to prove the divinity of the book as opposed to those who claimed that the Quran is man-made (74:25). Thus the miracle of the Quran is IN THE QURAN, and not in personal calculations worked out by employing non-Quranic data to prove non-Quranic issues! (Let me cite the Example of the Bahasi who revere the number 19 to where they changed the count of months to 19 months and do hold a fast for month each year (i.e 19 days), whould we thus conclude that the bahais are a miracle because they based their beliefs on the number 19?)!
Another thing is that the prayer on the day of congregation/gathering (jum'a) does not consists of 2 "khutbas" or sermons, because there is not such mention of the word, nor the commandmend to bring about a sermon on the day of congregation/gathering (jum3a)!
Let me Ask you submitters? Is the 2.5%, 5 daily salats, friday sermons, from the Quran? Is This following the Quran Alone?
What about the deletion of the two verse at the end of sura 9 in the Quran? How hypocritical when God Almighty himself assures us that "no falsehood can enter into it!!!..." (41:42) (See a logical explanation of the absense of a bismillah in sura 9-- it being a Law-decreeing sura (Muhkim) see: www.free-minds.org/muhkam-mutashabih)
How hypocritical for the SUbmitters to use the Hadiths as a source of their truth for the deletion of the 2 ending verses of sura 9!
Well if you believe that you can take Hadiths as history, then look at the article of "Why was Prophet Muhammad observing Salat at only 3 times of the day?" on www.quran-islam.org/articles/part_3/prophet_and_3_prayers_(P1379).html
Now Look at the real number of salats mentioned in the Quran:http://www.quran-islam.org/number_of_salat_(P1137).html
http://www.quran-islam.org/main_topics/islam/pillars/number_of_salat_(P1200).html
I ask Every Submitter out there to question their beliefs!
I will Remind again, DO you not think that the Almighty would test the so called believers of Rashad Khalifa's Message of "Quran Alone" After he has given them a profound mathematiclal miracle to TEST THEIR FAITH????
Student of Allah:
Salam,
What was Rashad's message ? By the way, including myself, I know of many people who are Qur'an alone followers and never heard of Rashad (when we read AQ and accepted it). Is that what God meant when He said that He guides whoever He wishes to ? I mean, the Qur'an alone followers I know , they all simply read the Qur'an and rejected hadith. The message of the Qur'an was sufficient for them simply upon reading. I am still skeptic about Rashad's purpose about messengership.
Anyways, while most of Rashad's followers that I know are nice people, some of them indeed incline towards Messenger worshiping trends. Some replace hadith based commentary with appendix, some authorise Rashad to translate the Qur'an (even though they do not authorize Muhammad to interpret, which is weird). I could never verify many of their practices from the Qur'an , then where is the point of saying "Quran, and nothing but the Quran" ???
Peace
----------------------------- Student of Allah
GODsubmitter:
Nice postyoussef4342,
I tend to agree with you about the uncertainty of 2.5 % only, but not about the rest. I shall not expound it here, since I explained it elsewhere already:
(http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603111.0)
Of course the numerical code of 19 was always inherent in the Quran, Dr. Rashad Khalifa, PhD simply DISCOVERED it, and we should all be thankful to him for that, although he couldn't have done it without permission and guidance by Allah Himself, and, after his discovery, many other, even more serous studies followed:
http://realquran.net/
On that site there is a pdf book downloadable, and I advise EVERY serious student of Quran to read it and ponder it seriously!
I read it twice, and, although it is not an easy read, it opens many doors for better understanding of the Quran.
http://realquran.net/index.php?option=com_rokdownloads&view=folder&Itemid=4&id=17:unlocking-the-quran-code
Now, I agree that no messenger is infallible, for a simple reason that he is human. But, ALL the messengers and prophets did only and exclusively one thing: they called people to worship and serve ONE GOD, and none beside Allah! Same as Dr. Rashad Khalifa, PhD! Even Jesus or Meshiah! I cannot even imagine Jesus of Nazareth saying to people to worship him, but look what they did with his message, and how they created Christianity and duped millions of people into turning Isa into god and worshiping him. But all those morons deserve that shirk I think, as well as any other person who is not capable of using his mind to distinguish the message from the messenger!
Asana:
Peace
Questions like those in above prove nothing but lack of trust in God and His Messengers….Messengers in their life as human being of course commit mistakes like rest of us but when it comes to delivering the message of God it’s impossible to send the people astray .It’s part of system of God to guide people through His messengers…How can one even imagine God’s messenger be on wrong path by practicing/worshiping God and then set a good example for rest of us???.........God has always helped His Messengers even when they committed some error by putting them back on the right Path…The reason is simply that He’s asking people obey His Messengers.
Dr.Khalifa/MOC invited the people to God’s Straight Path…If any of his practises was wrong it means God didn’t guide His own Messenger while asking us obeying him…How is it possible?! This kind of talking is nothing but putting doubts into heart of the believers. These doubts are coming only from one source and that’s Satan…God bestows peace and tranquillity into hearts of His worshipers while they obey His Messengers while Satan promoting doubt and suspicious.
Is there any single verse in the Quran that God’s Messengers sent people astray? Let’s see… Prophet Mohammad committed some but didn’t God remind him by putting him back on the right path?......Prophet Moses committed murder but when that happen, before his messngership or after? Of course before….Prophet Jonah left his mission, didn’t God help him to come back on the right path and then sending him back to his mission again? Of course He did….Prophet David, didn’t he misjudge about 99 sheep? Yes he did and God reminded him.
Dr.Khalifa invited the people to use Quran Alone…In that Quran Alone God is asking us to obey His messengers….We all know obeying messengers means obeying the Message which is Quran…In that Quran there are verses teaching us that previous Scriptures and messengers/Prophets got confirmed ….By saying that practices of Islam/rites got confirmed by His Messenger too…Dr.Khalifa confirmed those rites….The only excuse of some is that he followed Hadith…If something is found in Hadith doesn’t mean it's man-made…We all must verify things in light of the Quran…And that Quran teaches us Trust God ,do not doubt Him, messengers are blessing from God, God talks to us through His Messengers ,God guide us through His Messengers AND His Messengers SET good examples…. Dr.Khalifa was one of God’s Messenger then He set a good example in how God should be worshiped .Questioning his worshiping/practicing his religion is questioning God since he was His messenger And He guided us through him.
Asana
youssef4342:
--- Quote from: Asana on October 25, 2011, 07:35:44 AM ---Peace
Questions like those in above prove nothing but lack of trust in God and His Messengers….Messengers in their life as human being of course commit mistakes like rest of us but when it comes to delivering the message of God it’s impossible to send the people astray .It’s part of system of God to guide people through His messengers…How can one even imagine God’s messenger be on wrong path by practicing/worshiping God and then set a good example for rest of us???.........God has always helped His Messengers even when they committed some error by putting them back on the right Path…The reason is simply that He’s asking people obey His Messengers.
Dr.Khalifa/MOC invited the people to God’s Straight Path…If any of his practises was wrong it means God didn’t guide His own Messenger while asking us obeying him…How is it possible?! This kind of talking is nothing but putting doubts into heart of the believers. These doubts are coming only from one source and that’s Satan…God bestows peace and tranquillity into hearts of His worshipers while they obey His Messengers while Satan promoting doubt and suspicious.
Is there any single verse in the Quran that God’s Messengers sent people astray? Let’s see… Prophet Mohammad committed some but didn’t God remind him by putting him back on the right path?......Prophet Moses committed murder but when that happen, before his messngership or after? Of course before….Prophet Jonah left his mission, didn’t God help him to come back on the right path and then sending him back to his mission again? Of course He did….Prophet David, didn’t he misjudge about 99 sheep? Yes he did and God reminded him.
Dr.Khalifa invited the people to use Quran Alone…In that Quran Alone God is asking us to obey His messengers….We all know obeying messengers means obeying the Message which is Quran…In that Quran there are verses teaching us that previous Scriptures and messengers/Prophets got confirmed ….By saying that practices of Islam/rites got confirmed by His Messenger too…Dr.Khalifa confirmed those rites….The only excuse of some is that he followed Hadith…If something is found in Hadith doesn’t mean it's man-made…We all must verify things in light of the Quran…And that Quran teaches us Trust God ,do not doubt Him, messengers are blessing from God, God talks to us through His Messengers ,God guide us through His Messengers AND His Messengers SET good examples…. Dr.Khalifa was one of God’s Messenger then He set a good example in how God should be worshiped .Questioning his worshiping/practicing his religion is questioning God since he was His messenger And He guided us through him.
Asana
--- End quote ---
Peace Asana :peace:
Let me ask you, what was RK Message?
If RK Commanded to FOLLOW THE QURAN ALONE, and he himself did not, should we follow him?
Prophet Muhammed did indeed err and prohibited something that was lawful for him in sura 66, does that mean we should follow his error?
Let Me ask you, is RK infallible? Did he not make mistakes?
Let me Ask this again? Tell me where is the 2.5% from?
If the Quran is COMPLETE , and nothing is missing form it, then where is can i find this 2.5%!!!
Tradition? Abraham Gave 10% as tithe, not 2.5% (check the bible), so even Tradition is Wrong!!!
Even Rashad Himself stated in one of his videos(big debate),that "If i tell you to do anything that is not in the Quran, DO NOT DO IT!"
Rashad Instructed peoplen to follow the QUran alone. Muhammed was ordered to follow the Quran alone, THEY WERE NOT Decreeing laws by their own desires!
On the Day of judgment, If God ALmighty asks you, Did i command you to observe a 2.5% charirty?? what are you going to say
? Yes? well where did he stipulate such a pecentage? Are you going to say oh i was following your messenger? God Almighty has ever means to tell you that he only sent his messenger to warn people to FOLLOW THE QURAN ALONE!!!
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