Author Topic: Intercession?  (Read 1184 times)

Indelwyn

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Intercession?
« on: September 13, 2011, 11:13:29 AM »
So my  mother in law is upset to figure out I don't follow hadith, she said like most I don't love the Prophet enough and that because of this he will not intercede on judgement. She said since she know I only follow Quran to explain the the following verses. I am still new and having trouble, explaining these verses. Can anyone share some of their knowledge to help point me in a good direction so I may do some more research?

Thanks guys.

20:109 On that day shall no intercession avail except for those for whom permission has been granted by Allah, Most Gracious and whose word is acceptable to him.

21:28
He knows what is before them, and what is behind them, and they offer no intercession Expect for those who are acceptable

34:23
"No intercession can avail in His Presence, except for those for whom He has granted permission.

She states this is where Muhammad is given the permission.

I explained this is not in correct context.. ugh, I am so frustrated! I can't explain it.. She tried to make me feel like I am astray... but the Hadith make me sick to my stomach, I actually feel ill in my heart. However, when I read Qu'ran I find solace in peace and the things that made me feel ill just fade. "maybe Allah just wants you to be astray".. How can this be?? When I am sincerely searching for Him and Him alone. Thanks guys for making me feel apart of something, that I am not insane. I will say my husband is become more in more to listening to my reasoning on things and is agrees with me. We had a great talk this morning. I have him perplexed with 47:19 and 48:2, for now, atlease he is thinking and open. Thanks  again guys!

 :group:
"Victory is changing the hearts of your opponents by gentleness and kindness."- Saladin

Kaiokenred

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Re: Intercession?
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2011, 11:31:57 AM »
Allah says only those that he allows can intercess, but then He says He won't allow anyone.
“Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.” - Buddha

Abdul-Hadi

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Re: Intercession?
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2011, 11:38:04 AM »
Greetings and Peace, all  :group:

Maybe this will help.

82:19 The Day when no soul possesses anything for any other soul, and the decision on that Day is to God.

ALLAH knows best.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi

KDC501

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Re: Intercession?
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2011, 11:56:40 AM »
So my  mother in law is upset to figure out I don't follow hadith, she said like most I don't love the Prophet enough and that because of this he will not intercede on judgement. She said since she know I only follow Quran to explain the the following verses. I am still new and having trouble, explaining these verses. Can anyone share some of their knowledge to help point me in a good direction so I may do some more research?

Thanks guys.

20:109 On that day shall no intercession avail except for those for whom permission has been granted by Allah, Most Gracious and whose word is acceptable to him.

21:28
He knows what is before them, and what is behind them, and they offer no intercession Expect for those who are acceptable

34:23
"No intercession can avail in His Presence, except for those for whom He has granted permission.

She states this is where Muhammad is given the permission.

I explained this is not in correct context.. ugh, I am so frustrated! I can't explain it.. She tried to make me feel like I am astray... but the Hadith make me sick to my stomach, I actually feel ill in my heart. However, when I read Qu'ran I find solace in peace and the things that made me feel ill just fade. "maybe Allah just wants you to be astray".. How can this be?? When I am sincerely searching for Him and Him alone. Thanks guys for making me feel apart of something, that I am not insane. I will say my husband is become more in more to listening to my reasoning on things and is agrees with me. We had a great talk this morning. I have him perplexed with 47:19 and 48:2, for now, atlease he is thinking and open. Thanks  again guys!

 :group:

Dear Sister,

20:109 On that day shall no intercession avail except for those for whom permission has been granted by Allah, Most Gracious and whose word is acceptable to him. 

21:28
He knows what is before them, and what is behind them, and they offer no intercession Expect for those who are acceptable

34:23
"No intercession can avail in His Presence, except for those for whom He has granted permission.

If you look at the above verses it is quite clear that the Quran never said that Muhammad was an intercessor. And of course God can grant permission to intercede for others on his behave. God is the Lord of the Worlds. He grants power to whomever he wishes of his servants. He could even grant the power of intercession to his angels if he wished...

53:26 There are many angels in heaven, who have no power to intercede, except after God gives permission for whom He wishes and is satisfied with him.

 However God is the only Lord of the Day of Judgment. It is by his wisdom alone that a person  can progress or either regress. Sura 1 the first Sura of the Quran provides the fundamental laws of monotheism and the characteristics of God.

1:1 In the name of God, the Gracious, the Compassionate.
1:2 Praise is to God, Lord of the worlds.
1:3 The Gracious, the Compassionate.
1:4 Master of the day of judgment
1:5 You alone we serve; you alone we ask for help. ( Only God only can help us. Not the Angels nor Muhammad )
1:6 Guide us to the straight way;
1:7 the way of those whom you blessed; not of those who received anger, nor of the strayers.

God is master of the day of judgment not his angels or his prophets.

The litmus test of a disbeliever  is  one who rejoices when other partners are associated with God....

39:45 When God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not acknowledge the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!

If your mother-in-law still wishes to argue with you after these scriptural proofs then I suggest you leave her be. You cannot guide the ones you love.


Peace,

Kevin.







Producer

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Re: Intercession?
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2011, 12:00:50 PM »
Pay for her living and she'll obey you.

Paradox Uncreated

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Re: Intercession?
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2011, 12:01:38 PM »
I just visited the generically named "islam" forum in my country, and looked at the posts, and their argumentation.  Their intelligence is an insult to me, and yet they believe themselves to be in a position, to tell others what Islam is.

What really is guidance? Surely a good part of that is avoiding the repulsive hadith papers.

As for exactly the topic, intercession, I don`t know. I never understood intercession. However, if it suppsedly is about loving hadith mohammed, so that he "intercedes" for you on judgement day, and makes God forgive your sins, and admits you to paradise, because of your rightheousness.. Isn`t that what God does anyway? Mohammed doesn`t change the scrolls the angels carry of your deeds. And ofcourse loving and worshipping Mohammed as an idol, will not get you to paradise.

Intercession!?!?
Paradox Void is the infinitely superior.

Paradox Void is an attribute of God, or any other entity it should point to, which is the same entity.
Designer of all dimensions. Former of forms, shaper of shapes. According to truth.
Peace.

Indelwyn

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Re: Intercession?
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2011, 02:09:26 PM »
KDC501: That is what I told her, no where do it say it is Muhammad. That she was taking it out of context. She stated it does not state that it cannot be him, thus it supports the hadith. Like you said though, I am not going to argue with her, I just said I would take it into consideration and get back to her.

Producer. I DO pay for her living. Well my husband does and it is because he pays for her living that I am working full-time, instead of part time or as a stay at home mom as I want. So trust me that has no effect on her. Her husband died years ago and now it is my husbands obligation to take care of her.

Intercession like this reminds me so much of Catholicism.
"Victory is changing the hearts of your opponents by gentleness and kindness."- Saladin

Imaani1

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Re: Intercession?
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2011, 02:27:12 PM »
Indelwyn, please dont worry ...... :group: things will work out.

I understand the verses to mean that God is the only person who can decide who will intercede if atall and in line with the rest of the good book Gods decision has nothing to do with the prophet/his influence or his presence.

things happen for a reason ...a bigger plan and maybe your mother in laws challenges to what you follow are there to make you read/understand further to stand you better in your faith.......keep strong  :)


Paradox Uncreated

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Re: Intercession?
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2011, 05:13:02 AM »
I thought about anything is possible if Allah wills. Maybe that is why these verses reserve possiblity of intercession here?
Paradox Void is the infinitely superior.

Paradox Void is an attribute of God, or any other entity it should point to, which is the same entity.
Designer of all dimensions. Former of forms, shaper of shapes. According to truth.
Peace.

Jafar

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Re: Intercession?
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2011, 03:46:15 PM »
So my  mother in law is upset to figure out I don't follow hadith, she said like most I don't love the Prophet enough and that because of this he will not intercede on judgement.

They (again) got this idea from christians.. observe on how 'hardcore christians' present their argument regarding 'why we should worship Jesus'.. some of them said; that is because Jesus shall be the judge on the day of judgement some others said  because Jesus shall intercede for us to 'The Father' on the day of judgement. And Jesus shall only do that to those who 'believed in him', and to prove that you 'believed in him' you must 'worship him'... Halleluyah.. (And the choir start)..

Besides Jesus and Muhammad as an example of 'past living person who shall intercede on your behalf', there's also a figure of Osiris within ancient Egyptians and also Krishna within Hinduism.  Just like Jesus and Muhammad, Osiris and Krishna was once a living person who due to one things lead to another get promoted to become a deity (god) and had (part) of God's power within him.

Again.. the concept of 'intercession' is the underlying concept which started 'polytheism' and/or 'deities worshiping' in the first place. The concept will then get easily expanded to 'worship this deity if you want X', as the "Supreme God" has given the power of X to this specific deity. And the priest of X shall invent their (often complex) specific rites to worship this specific deity X. And thus priest Y shall invent their own rites to worship deity Y... and that's how the 'priestly class' divide their power (and business) among them.. In this case the priest shall also intercede on your behalf towards specific deity partly due to the 'rites' (in which they have invented) are not easy, and you shall need their services to either teach you on how to do it or subcontract the work of doing those rites to them (with of course different price).

The importance of Monotheism in my opinion is not (merely) on the 'belief that there's one God' yet also that the True God are very close to each and any one of you as He is the creator of all of you. This is the common theme that I see both in the Gospel and also the Quran. God knew the content of your prayer even before you say it.. thus said Jesus in the Gospel when he was being asked on the 'proper words to say on prayer'.. He never even once said "Pray to me and worship me and I will bring your case to The Father In Heaven"...

In the Quran more direct statement are being given...

And when My servants ask you concerning Me - indeed I am near. I respond to the invocation of the supplicant when he calls Me. So let them respond to Me and believe in Me that they may be guided.
(2:186)

And also
"Call upon Me and I will answer to you"
(40:60)

Again God's believer are  instructed to only invite everyone to God (and not to their religion/sect/cult as popularly believed)..

For every group of people We have appointed rites/commandments/things to do/tasks (Nask) which they should perform. So let them not dispute with thee over the matter but invite them to your Rabb..
(22:67)

Because He's the only that can give them guidance (and not us), if He wills it and they ask for it...

Salam / Peace
The Arabs (al-arabu) are the worst in rejection and hypocrisy, and more likely not to know the limits of what God has sent upon His messenger
9:97

And yes it's written as Al-Arabu and not Al-Badawi or Badawiyun..
*For those who had a hard time accepting this fact..