Author Topic: a question about RK's messengership  (Read 525 times)

ggg

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a question about RK's messengership
« on: July 10, 2011, 08:00:07 AM »

 3:81 God took a covenant from the prophets: "For what I have given you of the book and wisdom, then a messenger will come to you authenticating what is with you. You will acknowledge him and support him." He said, "Do you testify, and agree to this burden?" they said, "We testify." He said, "Then bear witness, and I am with you bearing witness."

How did RK authenticate existing scripture?  can RK followers explain this a little bit thoroughly


raginggaijin

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Re: a question about RK's messengership
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2011, 09:58:11 AM »
3:81 God took a covenant from the prophets: "For what I have given you of the book and wisdom, then a messenger will come to you authenticating what is with you. You will acknowledge him and support him." He said, "Do you testify, and agree to this burden?" they said, "We testify." He said, "Then bear witness, and I am with you bearing witness."

How did RK authenticate existing scripture?  can RK followers explain this a little bit thoroughly

The Quran was sent to verify (musaddiqun) previous Books: Surah 3:81, 42:52, 5:48, 2:41, 2:89, 2:91, 2:101, 3:03, 6:92

"And when (Wa-ith) God took (akhatha Allahu) Compact of the Prophets (meethaqa alnnabiyyeena): 'That I have given you of Book and Wisdom; then there shall come to you a Messenger verifying (musaddiqun) what is with you -- you shall believe in him and you shall help him; do you agree?' He said. 'And do you take My load on you on that condition?' They said, 'We do agree.' God said, 'Bear witness so, and I shall be with you among the witnesses.'"
Surah 3:81

"Wa-ith akhatha Allahu meethaqa alnnabiyyeena lama ataytukum min kitabin wahikmatin thumma jaakum rasoolun musaddiqun lima maAAakum latu/minunna bihi walatansurunnahu qala aaqrartum waakhathtum AAala thalikum isree qaloo aqrarna qala faishhadoo waana maAAakum mina alshshahideena" Surah 3:81

This Compact - promise, agreement - is with those who inherited the Book, for the Messengers of Allah verified the Book that was with them.

"And when God took compact (meethaqa) with those who had been given the Book: 'You shall make it clear unto the people, and not conceal it.' But they rejected it behind their backs and sold it for a small price -- how evil was that their selling!" Surah 3:187

The Quran verifies previous Books.

"And We have sent down to thee the Book with the truth, verifying (musaddiqan) the Book that was before it, and assuring it. So judge between them according to what God has sent down, and do not follow their caprices, to forsake the truth that has come to thee. To every one of you We have appointed a right way and an open road. If God had willed, He would have made you one nation; but that He may try you in what has come to you. So be you forward in good works; unto God shall you return, all together; and He will tell you of that whereon you were at variance." Surah 5:48

"This is a Book We have sent down, blessed and verifying (musaddiqu) that which was before it, and for thee to warn the Mother of Cities and those about her; and those who believe in the world to come believe in it, and watch over their prayers." Surah 6:92

"He has sent down upon thee the Book with the truth, verifying (musaddiqan) what was before it, and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel." Surah 3:3

"When there has come to them a Messenger (rasoolun) from God verifying (musaddiqun) what was with them, a party of them that were given the Book reject the Book of God behind their backs, as though they knew not," Surah 2:101

"And believe in that I have sent down, verifying (musaddiqan) that which is with you, and be not the first to disbelieve in it. And sell not My signs for a little price; and fear you Me." Surah 2:41

Surah 33:7-8 speaks of the Covenant and Compacts taken by those sent the Messengers; an agreement Allah takes with all who submit their will to Him:

"And remember God's blessing upon you, and His compact (wameethaqahu) which He made with you when you said, 'We have heard and we obey' . And fear you God; surely God knows the thoughts in the breasts." Surah 5:7

"And when We took from the Prophets (mina alnnabiyyeena) compact (meethaqahum), and from thee, and from Noah, and Abraham, Moses, and Isa, Mary's son; We took from them a solemn compact (meethaqan) that He might question the truthful concerning their truthfulness; and He has prepared for the unbelievers a painful chastisement." Surah 33:7-8 Surah 33:7-8

Covenant and Compact of the Book and Prophets: Surah 2:27, 2:63, 2:83-84, 3:77, 3:81, 3:187, 5:7, 5:12-14, 5:70, 6:152, 7:169, 13:20, 13:25, 16:91, 16:95, 17:34, 19:78, 33:15, 33:23, 48:10, 57:8
Compact/agreement (meethaqan): 4:21, 4:90, 4:92, 8:56, 8:72, 12:66, 12:80

"And We took compact (meethaqa) with the Children of Israel, and We sent Messengers (rusulan) to them. Whensoever there came to them a Messenger (rasoolun) with that their souls had not desire for, some they cried lies to, and some they slew." Surah 5:70

"And there succeeded after them a succession who inherited the Book, taking the chance goods of this lower world, and saying, 'It will be forgiven us'; and if chance goods the like of them come to them, they will take them. Has not the compact of the Book (meethaqu alkitabi) been taken touching them, that they should say concerning God nothing but the truth? And they have studied what is in it; and the Last Abode is better for those who are godfearing. Do you not understand?" Surah 7:169

"And those who break the Covenant of God (AAahda Allahi) after His compact (meethaqihi), and who snap what God has commanded to be joined, and who work corruption in the earth -- theirs shall be the curse, and theirs the Evil Abode." Surah 13:25

"How is it with you, that you believe not in God seeing that the Messenger is calling you to believe in your Lord, and He has taken compact (meethaqakum) with you, if you are believers?" Surah 57:8

"God took compact (meethaqa)with the Children of Israel; and We raised up from among them twelve chieftains. And God said, 'I am with you. Surely, if you perform the prayer, and pay the alms, and believe in My Messengers and succour them, and lend to God a good loan, I will acquit you of your evil deeds, and I will admit you to gardens underneath which rivers flow. So whosoever of you thereafter disbelieves, surely he has gone astray from the right way. "
So for their breaking their compact (meethaqahum) We cursed them and made their hearts hard, they perverting words from their meanings; and they have forgotten a portion of that they were reminded of; and thou wilt never cease to light upon some act of treachery on their part, except a few of them. Yet pardon them, and forgive; surely God loves the good-doers.
And with those who say 'We are Christians' We took compact (meethaqahum); and they have forgotten a portion of that they were reminded of. So We have stirred up among them enmity and hatred, till the Day of Resurrection; and God will assuredly tell them of the things they wrought."
Surah 5:13-14

"So, for their breaking the compact (meethaqahum), and disbelieving in the signs of God, and slaying the Prophets without right, and for their saying, 'Our hearts are uncircumcised' -- nay, but God sealed them for their unbelief, so they believe not, except a few --"
Surah 4:155

The Quran sent for all nations/beings: Surah 3:108, 6:90, 12:104, 21:107, 25:1, 38:87, 68:52, 81:27, 34:28, 7:158, 33:40, 4:170, 47:33, 4:80, 61:9, 21:107, 4:79-80

Allah perfected the deen of Al-Islam during the time of Muhammad (pbuh): Surah 3:19, 3:85, 5:3, 6:125, 9:74, 21:92, 39:22, 49:17, 61:7

There is no need for further Messengers as we still have the Truth with us today.
"Those who listen to the word, then follow the best of it; those are they whom Allah has guided, and those it is who are the men of understanding." Surah 39:18

Peace.
Explanation is not proof.
I do not endorse the teachings of Free-Minds.org.
I follow only what Allah revealed, the speech of an honored Messenger: The Quran.
Surah 2:99, 6:155, 6:106, 7:3, 7:157, 7:203-204, 8:64, 10:109, 12:111, 33:2, 17:36,18:27-28, 15:9, 28:48-49, 35:29, 49:6, 54:17
Peace. :)

ggg

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Re: a question about RK's messengership
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2011, 07:05:08 AM »
How shall we interpret the silence of RK followers  ?

some possibilities:

1- No one follows RK  :D
2- No RK follower believes the code has verified Quran
3- They still follow RK without knowing the answer in spite of 17:36
4- RK followers think RK verified the scripture with His Holy Ass  :hail


Student of Allah

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Re: a question about RK's messengership
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2011, 07:29:59 AM »
How shall we interpret the silence of RK followers  ?

some possibilities:

1- No one follows RK  :D
2- No RK follower believes the code has verified Quran
3- They still follow RK without knowing the answer in spite of 17:36
4- RK followers think RK verified the scripture with His Holy Ass  :hail



Salam,

Or probably not all Rashad Khalifa followers are in the forum looking for your thread ?? May be they never saw your thread ? Or may be they dont want to answer just because of their freedom of choice ?

PEACE
----------- Student of Allah

KDC501

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Re: a question about RK's messengership
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2011, 09:26:29 AM »
How shall we interpret the silence of RK followers  ?

some possibilities:

1- No one follows RK  :D
2- No RK follower believes the code has verified Quran
3- They still follow RK without knowing the answer in spite of 17:36
4- RK followers think RK verified the scripture with His Holy Ass  :hail



Silence could also mean that some people already know that your forum topic is nothing more than a ruse to boost your vanity. God will suffice as a witness for his messengers. As far as I’m concerned Dr.Rashad Khalifa was indeed one of the messengers.  Narcissist such as yourself wish that God’s messenger would bring ‘fire and brimstone’ upon there arrivals or perhaps magically powers like the ability to walk on water or some other sign to your liking. In your blindness and lack of understanding you have failed to realize that previous messengers didn’t bring signs like these for example Lot, Jonah , Hud and Saaleh (who brought only a clear message and a camel) .

In regards to your question you already know the answer which I will give. But the answer isn’t to your liking and you will not heed my words nor believe them as you have done in the past. So why bother convincing one who’s mind is already set and is most likely doom for the fire whose fuel is men and stones???

ggg

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Re: a question about RK's messengership
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2011, 03:08:22 PM »
Assalamoon Alaykoom  american,

several weeks ago you were a calm and polite person but now your way of discussing reminds me of the arizona-creature's style.. what's made you so aggressive ?

In regards to your question you already know the answer which I will give.

my question is not to you only, but to all RK followers.


ok.. another question: why "verifying scriptures" isn't mentioned among the functions of 19 in 74:31 ?

btw, it wasn't RK but Mohammad who brought 19 signs.. RK was just the first person who noticed the phenomena, and the phenomena proved the prophethood of Mohammad not of RK ..besides, some major parts of 19 have been discovered by other guys..so should we talk about "a gang of messengers of the covenant" ?  :yes

raginggaijin

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Re: a question about RK's messengership
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2011, 04:13:12 PM »
Assalamoon Alaykoom  american,

I am an American as well; a revert from Trinitarian Christianity to the deen of Al-Islam.
Please don't lump us all into the same category. ;)

Peace.
Explanation is not proof.
I do not endorse the teachings of Free-Minds.org.
I follow only what Allah revealed, the speech of an honored Messenger: The Quran.
Surah 2:99, 6:155, 6:106, 7:3, 7:157, 7:203-204, 8:64, 10:109, 12:111, 33:2, 17:36,18:27-28, 15:9, 28:48-49, 35:29, 49:6, 54:17
Peace. :)

truthseeker171

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Re: a question about RK's messengership
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2011, 12:33:49 AM »
Peace


Verse 3:81 is a verse that is often wrongly interpreted by the acceptors of extra messengers.
 
Verse 3:81 - And when God accepted the covenant of the prophets, verily the scripture and the wisdom which I have given you, hereafter shall a messenger come to you, confirming the truth of that which is with you, you shall surely believe in him, and you shall assist him. He said, are you firmly resolved, and do you accept My covenant on this? They answered, we are firmly resolved. He said, be therefore witnesses; and I also bear witness with you. -
 
This verse states that God made a covenant with the prophets and that these prophets had to believe in and to support a messenger who would confirm their scriptures.
Some people say that the discoverer of code 19 is predicted by verse 3:81.
This is a wrong vision, since code 19 refers only to the Koran. Over it (allegorically this can refer to the Koran) is nineteen according to an interpretation of verse 74:30, not over them.
Code 19 did not confirm the scriptures of the several prophets in any way as referred to in verse 3:81. There is no evidence that the discoverer of code 19 did confirm for instance the prophet Solomon.
So the claim of being the confirmer of the prophets can not be true.
 
Furthermore the Koran does not suggest anywhere that code 19 is a confirmation of its Godly origin.
According to a possible interpretation of verse 74:31 code 19 is there to test, convince and strengthen different groups of people in the faith or absence of it, this is different from confirming the Koran.
The proof of the Divine origin according to the Koran is the absence of contradictions - verse 4:82.
Verses 98:1-3 relate also to the Koran as a clear evidence itself.
 
According to verses 3:84, 2:41, 2:91, 2:97 amongst others, the Koran is a confirmation of the previous prophetic scriptures.
But the prophet-messenger Mohammad himself is not the confirming messenger of verse 3:81.
This is because it would be unexplainable how the prophets could believe in and support the prophet-messenger Mohammad, while they were not on earth at the same time with him.
Since the departed souls including the prophets are behind a -barzakh-, according to verse 23:99-100, nobody including the prophets could believe in and support a messenger while being behind this barrier.
The Koran has no contradictions, verse 4:82.
 
The following explanation of verse 3:81 has no contradictions at all.
The messenger of the covenant is the messenger Gabriel.
 
Verse 2:97 - Say, anyone who opposes Gabriel should know that he has brought down this (Koran) into your heart, in accordance with God's will, confirming previous scriptures, and providing guidance and good news for the believers. -
 
The Koran and the other prophetic scriptures were brought to mankind in a special way.
The first stage is that the prophets received the scripture in a primal form.
The Koran uses the word -inzal- for this downloading-process.

Verse 2:213 - The people used to be one nation, then God sent the prophets as bearers of good news and as warners, and He sent down with them the book ... -

The next stage is the transformation of the message into materialized written verses, this is a gradual process that can last a longer period.
The Koran uses the word -tanzal- in verse 2:97, this verse refers to Gabriel as the messenger who is active in this transformation-process.
 
This system of the coming into being of the message in two phases, is fully compatible with the wording of verse 3:81.
The prophets have to promise that they will believe in and support the messenger that will come to them to confirm and transform the message that is already with them.
According to verses 26:192-193,19:17-19 and 2:97 together, that non-human messenger is the spirit Gabriel.
The prophets have an assisting role in this system of transforming the primal message, that is already with them into a definitive message, by accepting the guidance of Gabriel in this process.


Truthseeker

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