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High Imam Ismaili Sniper

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Obey Da Messenger
« on: June 28, 2011, 04:53:48 AM »
 Da qur'an says to Obey Allah and the Messenger. If it just referring to da Qur'an, why don't it just say "Obey Allah"? U can't answer dat lol

Peace/grease!  :peace:
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PLEASE NOTE: For those who don't know, I do not smoke Hashish...I am simply fascinated by the legends of the Ismailis. This important service announcement dedicated to the corporal faggot Paradox Uncreated.

The Assassins
Old Man of the Mountain" (Sabbah) would drug his young followers with hashish, lead them to a "paradise", and then claim that only he had the means to allow for their return. Perceiving that Sabbah was either a prophet or some kind of magic man, his disciples, believing that only he could return them to "paradise", were fully committed to his cause and willing to carry out his every request. With his new weapons, Sabbah began to order multiple assassinations.

High Imam Ismaili Sniper

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Re: Obey Da Messenger
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2011, 04:57:02 AM »
Quote from: High Imam Ismaili Sniper on June 28, 2011, 04:53:48 AM
Da qur'an says to Obey Allah and the Messenger. If it just referring to da Qur'an, why don't it just say "Obey Allah"? U can't answer dat lol

Peace/grease!  :peace:

Lol dey can't answe  :rotfl:
Logged
PLEASE NOTE: For those who don't know, I do not smoke Hashish...I am simply fascinated by the legends of the Ismailis. This important service announcement dedicated to the corporal faggot Paradox Uncreated.

The Assassins
Old Man of the Mountain" (Sabbah) would drug his young followers with hashish, lead them to a "paradise", and then claim that only he had the means to allow for their return. Perceiving that Sabbah was either a prophet or some kind of magic man, his disciples, believing that only he could return them to "paradise", were fully committed to his cause and willing to carry out his every request. With his new weapons, Sabbah began to order multiple assassinations.

Layth

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Re: Obey Da Messenger
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2011, 05:03:09 AM »
Because the Quran was not revealed directly from God but was transmitted through the messenger - duh!
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`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)

TruthBehindIt

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Re: Obey Da Messenger
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2011, 05:36:35 AM »
Salam and Peace!

Quote from: High Imam Ismaili Sniper on June 28, 2011, 04:57:02 AM
Lol dey can't answe  :rotfl:

In the name of obeying the Messenger, the Ummah is straying and worshipping many mortal gods:
 
Muhammad (SAW), Ali, Fatima, Hasan, Husaain, Imam Bukhari, Imam Musilm, Ulama Karam/mortal teachers/Clergies, and their own dirty nufs.

Anyways, read below, carefully!

=================================================================================================

Is The Messenger Consistent with Allah?

Salam and Peace!

Please consider this very important point:

Allah ordered us to obey Allah and obey the Messenger.

-----"O you who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger."   (Al-Nisaa-59)

Then further Allah declares:

-----"He who obeys the Messenger, has indeed obeyed Allah."   (Al-Nisa-80)

It means there is no Inconsistency in "Obeying Allah" and "Obeying the Messenger".
It means what the Messenger is saying, is exactly what Allah is saying.

And, indeed, it is so.

Read the Verse:

-----"And he (the Messenger) does not speak of his own desire. It is not but a Revelation that is revealed."  (Al-Najum-3,4)

Allah declared that His Messenger does not speak from his own desire.-----He does not issue any commandment from his own judgement.-----He only gives people The Revelation.

Why???---Because It is only Allah Who issues Hukm:

-----"Surely the Hukm (Law and Judgment) is for none, but Allah." (Yousuf-40)
Allah do not make anyone His associate in His Hukm:

-----"He does not make anyone His associate in His Hukm (Law and Judgment)"  (Al-Kahaf-26)
Means Allah does not make even His Messengers His associate in His Hukm.

Was the Messenger authorised by Allah to issue any teachings besides The Quran?
Allah asserts to all believers that the Messenger was commanded not to teach any other teachings, otherwise he would incur severe punishment from Allah.
-----"It is a Revelation from the Lord of the universe. Had he (Muhammad) uttered any other teachings, We would have grabbed him by the right, and We would have severed his Wateen (Major artery of the heart), none of you could have helped him." (Al-Haqqa-43-47)

And so, the Messenger is declaring in Al-Quran, that he can not make any change in Al-Quran, or he can not give any new teachings other than Al-Quran.
-----"And when Our Verses are recited to them as clear Evidence, those who hope not for their meeting with Us, say: “Bring a quran other than this (Quran), or make changes in this (Quran).” Say (O Messenger): “It is not for me to change it on my own accord. I follow not but that which is revealed unto me. Indeed, I fear, if I were to disobey my Lord, the punishment of a Great Day.”   (Younus:15)

So, it is clear like daylight, that the Messenger only speaks what was revealed to him.

Read this Verse:
-----"O Prophet, why do you make unlawful that which Allah has made lawful for you. Seeking to please your wives. And Allah is All Forgiving, All Merciful."  (Al-Tahreem-1)

It clearly means that anything that Allah made "Lawful",-----the Messenger was not authorized to make it "un--Lawful".
And anything that Allah did not make compulsory in His Exalted Quran, the Messenger was not authorized to make it Deen (beard, etc.).
So, what Allah allows, the Messenger allows.
And what Allah forbids, the Messenger forbids.

That is why, one who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah.
-----"He who obeys the Messenger, has indeed obeyed Allah."   (Al-Nisa-80)


So, the only reason that "Obeying the Messenger" is the same as "Obeying Allah", is that the Messenger conveys The Message only.

Please read the diagram below, horizontally, and then vertically.

Obeying Allah   =   Obeying the Messenger
         |                                      |
         |                                      |
        \/                                   \/
The Message     =     The Message that he brought.
that He sent.               
          \                                 /
            \                             /
              \                         /
                \                     /
                  \                 /
                     \            /
                       \       /
                         \   /
                The Message

So, it is very much clear that the Messenger taught The Message only. That is why "Obeying Allah" and "Obeying the Messenger" are one thing and consistent.
And this consistency is Islam.
Remember, there is no inconsistency in Isalm. (Sects differ with each other. Open Shirk).


But the man-made books of ahadith show that the Messenger spoke other than Al-Quran.
These books show that Allah made His Messenger His associate in His Hukm---and the Messenger issued new commandments, side by side Allah, from his own understanding. (e.g. Stoning the zani to death, killing the apostate, killing the blasphemer, beard, etc.)-----
----whereas, these commandments are not found in Al-Quran.
(It clearly means,----very very clearly means that the Messenger was not only a Messenger of The Message,----he was also an initiator of new commandments from his own understanding.-----New commandments, which are not to be found in Allah's Safe, Holy, Exalted and Supreme Quran.)

Then how can "Obeying Allah " and  "Obeying the Messenger" can be one thing???
Then how can "Obeying Allah " and  "Obeying the Messenger" can be Consistent???

Ironically:
According to Bukhari-followers, "Obeying Allah " and  "Obeying the Messenger" are two different things.
And ironically, they claim from their own mouth that "Obeying Allah" is Al-Quran, and "Obeying the Messenger" is the ahadith.

And more ironically,---(if "Obeying the Messenger" is the ahadith)-----then if someone follows ahadith in Sahih Al-Bukhari, it means he has Obeyed the Messenger,---and if he has Obeyed the Messenger,---then he has Obeyed Allah.
Where has Al-Quran gone???
The ummah has got rid of Allah and His Quran, finally!
Imam Bukhari is enough for them!---(Take rufuge in Allah!)

-----"And when Allah, the One is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with disgust. And when those (whom they worship) besides Him are mentioned, behold, they rejoice."  (Al-Zamur-45)

People rejoice when Imam Bukhari is mentioned.-----They are happy!!!

-----"But, man will be a witness against himself. Even if he offers his excuses."  (Al-Qiyamah-14,15)

They are witness against themselves of what they hold up to.
And very strange!-----They confess it with their own mouth.
===============================================================

Don't say people don't understand.-----People understand everything, at least, when Allah's Revealed Truth is put before them.
Yet, even after understanding Allah's Verses well, they find it difficult to accept The Truth, The Only Truth in the universe.---Why?


Just close your eyes, and peep into your heart. You will find the criminal there.
-----The "Ego".-----Kick him out!

==============================================================

May Allah guide all of us to The Right Path that would take us to Allah.

-----"Indeed, This (Quran) is a Reminder. So whoever wills, let him take the way to his Lord"   (Al-Dahr-29)

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High Imam Ismaili Sniper

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Re: Obey Da Messenger
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2011, 06:33:13 PM »
Quote from: Layth on June 28, 2011, 05:03:09 AM
Because the Quran was not revealed directly from God but was transmitted through the messenger - duh!

 ::) Da arabic sayz "Allah WA rasool."

Obey Allah WA rasool.  :)

Da Qur'an is from Allah, if He meant only obey da Quran it would have said just "Obey ALLAH". Instead it sayz "Allah WA Rasool"

Logged
PLEASE NOTE: For those who don't know, I do not smoke Hashish...I am simply fascinated by the legends of the Ismailis. This important service announcement dedicated to the corporal faggot Paradox Uncreated.

The Assassins
Old Man of the Mountain" (Sabbah) would drug his young followers with hashish, lead them to a "paradise", and then claim that only he had the means to allow for their return. Perceiving that Sabbah was either a prophet or some kind of magic man, his disciples, believing that only he could return them to "paradise", were fully committed to his cause and willing to carry out his every request. With his new weapons, Sabbah began to order multiple assassinations.

High Imam Ismaili Sniper

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Re: Obey Da Messenger
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2011, 06:36:45 PM »
Quote from: TruthBehindIt on June 28, 2011, 05:36:35 AM
Salam and Peace!

In the name of obeying the Messenger, the Ummah is straying and worshipping many mortal gods:
 
Muhammad (SAW), Ali, Fatima, Hasan, Husaain, Imam Bukhari, Imam Musilm, Ulama Karam/mortal teachers/Clergies, and their own dirty nufs.

Anyways, read below, carefully!

=================================================================================================

Is The Messenger Consistent with Allah?

Salam and Peace!

Please consider this very important point:

Allah ordered us to obey Allah and obey the Messenger.

-----"O you who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger."   (Al-Nisaa-59)

Then further Allah declares:

-----"He who obeys the Messenger, has indeed obeyed Allah."   (Al-Nisa-80)

It means there is no Inconsistency in "Obeying Allah" and "Obeying the Messenger".
It means what the Messenger is saying, is exactly what Allah is saying.

And, indeed, it is so.

Read the Verse:

-----"And he (the Messenger) does not speak of his own desire. It is not but a Revelation that is revealed."  (Al-Najum-3,4)

Allah declared that His Messenger does not speak from his own desire.-----He does not issue any commandment from his own judgement.-----He only gives people The Revelation.

Why???---Because It is only Allah Who issues Hukm:

-----"Surely the Hukm (Law and Judgment) is for none, but Allah." (Yousuf-40)
Allah do not make anyone His associate in His Hukm:

-----"He does not make anyone His associate in His Hukm (Law and Judgment)"  (Al-Kahaf-26)
Means Allah does not make even His Messengers His associate in His Hukm.

Was the Messenger authorised by Allah to issue any teachings besides The Quran?
Allah asserts to all believers that the Messenger was commanded not to teach any other teachings, otherwise he would incur severe punishment from Allah.
-----"It is a Revelation from the Lord of the universe. Had he (Muhammad) uttered any other teachings, We would have grabbed him by the right, and We would have severed his Wateen (Major artery of the heart), none of you could have helped him." (Al-Haqqa-43-47)

And so, the Messenger is declaring in Al-Quran, that he can not make any change in Al-Quran, or he can not give any new teachings other than Al-Quran.
-----"And when Our Verses are recited to them as clear Evidence, those who hope not for their meeting with Us, say: “Bring a quran other than this (Quran), or make changes in this (Quran).” Say (O Messenger): “It is not for me to change it on my own accord. I follow not but that which is revealed unto me. Indeed, I fear, if I were to disobey my Lord, the punishment of a Great Day.”   (Younus:15)

So, it is clear like daylight, that the Messenger only speaks what was revealed to him.

Read this Verse:
-----"O Prophet, why do you make unlawful that which Allah has made lawful for you. Seeking to please your wives. And Allah is All Forgiving, All Merciful."  (Al-Tahreem-1)

It clearly means that anything that Allah made "Lawful",-----the Messenger was not authorized to make it "un--Lawful".
And anything that Allah did not make compulsory in His Exalted Quran, the Messenger was not authorized to make it Deen (beard, etc.).
So, what Allah allows, the Messenger allows.
And what Allah forbids, the Messenger forbids.

That is why, one who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah.
-----"He who obeys the Messenger, has indeed obeyed Allah."   (Al-Nisa-80)


So, the only reason that "Obeying the Messenger" is the same as "Obeying Allah", is that the Messenger conveys The Message only.

Please read the diagram below, horizontally, and then vertically.

Obeying Allah   =   Obeying the Messenger
         |                                      |
         |                                      |
        \/                                   \/
The Message     =     The Message that he brought.
that He sent.               
          \                                 /
            \                             /
              \                         /
                \                     /
                  \                 /
                     \            /
                       \       /
                         \   /
                The Message

So, it is very much clear that the Messenger taught The Message only. That is why "Obeying Allah" and "Obeying the Messenger" are one thing and consistent.
And this consistency is Islam.
Remember, there is no inconsistency in Isalm. (Sects differ with each other. Open Shirk).


But the man-made books of ahadith show that the Messenger spoke other than Al-Quran.
These books show that Allah made His Messenger His associate in His Hukm---and the Messenger issued new commandments, side by side Allah, from his own understanding. (e.g. Stoning the zani to death, killing the apostate, killing the blasphemer, beard, etc.)-----
----whereas, these commandments are not found in Al-Quran.
(It clearly means,----very very clearly means that the Messenger was not only a Messenger of The Message,----he was also an initiator of new commandments from his own understanding.-----New commandments, which are not to be found in Allah's Safe, Holy, Exalted and Supreme Quran.)

Then how can "Obeying Allah " and  "Obeying the Messenger" can be one thing???
Then how can "Obeying Allah " and  "Obeying the Messenger" can be Consistent???

Ironically:
According to Bukhari-followers, "Obeying Allah " and  "Obeying the Messenger" are two different things.
And ironically, they claim from their own mouth that "Obeying Allah" is Al-Quran, and "Obeying the Messenger" is the ahadith.

And more ironically,---(if "Obeying the Messenger" is the ahadith)-----then if someone follows ahadith in Sahih Al-Bukhari, it means he has Obeyed the Messenger,---and if he has Obeyed the Messenger,---then he has Obeyed Allah.
Where has Al-Quran gone???
The ummah has got rid of Allah and His Quran, finally!
Imam Bukhari is enough for them!---(Take rufuge in Allah!)

-----"And when Allah, the One is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with disgust. And when those (whom they worship) besides Him are mentioned, behold, they rejoice."  (Al-Zamur-45)

People rejoice when Imam Bukhari is mentioned.-----They are happy!!!

-----"But, man will be a witness against himself. Even if he offers his excuses."  (Al-Qiyamah-14,15)

They are witness against themselves of what they hold up to.
And very strange!-----They confess it with their own mouth.
===============================================================

Don't say people don't understand.-----People understand everything, at least, when Allah's Revealed Truth is put before them.
Yet, even after understanding Allah's Verses well, they find it difficult to accept The Truth, The Only Truth in the universe.---Why?


Just close your eyes, and peep into your heart. You will find the criminal there.
-----The "Ego".-----Kick him out!

==============================================================

May Allah guide all of us to The Right Path that would take us to Allah.

-----"Indeed, This (Quran) is a Reminder. So whoever wills, let him take the way to his Lord"   (Al-Dahr-29)

Peace!  :peace:

Why does it say "Allah WA Rasool"? Thiz is the thing Quranites can't answer  ;D
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PLEASE NOTE: For those who don't know, I do not smoke Hashish...I am simply fascinated by the legends of the Ismailis. This important service announcement dedicated to the corporal faggot Paradox Uncreated.

The Assassins
Old Man of the Mountain" (Sabbah) would drug his young followers with hashish, lead them to a "paradise", and then claim that only he had the means to allow for their return. Perceiving that Sabbah was either a prophet or some kind of magic man, his disciples, believing that only he could return them to "paradise", were fully committed to his cause and willing to carry out his every request. With his new weapons, Sabbah began to order multiple assassinations.

kgwithnob

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Re: Obey Da Messenger
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2011, 08:35:42 PM »
Quote from: High Imam Ismaili Sniper on June 28, 2011, 04:53:48 AM
Da qur'an says to Obey Allah and the Messenger. If it just referring to da Qur'an, why don't it just say "Obey Allah"? U can't answer dat lol

Peace/grease!  :peace:

Verses 4:59 & 4:83, also talk about أُوْلِى ٱلۡأَمۡرِ/‘ULIL’AMR, who ought to be obeyed too. Can you explain why is that? I bet if you answer this question right, the same answer is going to be good for your own question too. Just go figure, challenge your IQ for once!!! :rotfl:

Peace,
Khalil
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Layth

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Re: Obey Da Messenger
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2011, 11:27:37 PM »
Quote
Da arabic sayz "Allah WA rasool."

Obey Allah WA rasool. 

Da Qur'an is from Allah, if He meant only obey da Quran it would have said just "Obey ALLAH". Instead it sayz "Allah WA Rasool"

I love how you simply ignored the responce I gave you - even though it was a 1 liner :(

You need to get serious about God...This is not a subject one jokes about as peoples lives (literallly) are on the line.

God did not reveal the Quran to mankind directly, thus if you were to say "obey God" then people will be at a loss as to how to do that since they are forced to obey a human to get to the information from God - hence the qualification "and obey the messenger".

4:80 Whoever obeys the messenger has obeyed God; and whoever turns away, We have not sent you as a guardian over them.

The above verse makes crystal clear - what may appear as 2 commands is infact 1 command.
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`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)

Student of Allah

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Re: Obey Da Messenger
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2011, 04:02:43 AM »
Salam,

Its funny when you study religions of the world and notice the similarities. For example, christians cant get over this line Jesus said:

"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (Holy Bible, John 14:6)

Muslims understand this verse well, that no once can come to Allah but by obeying Jesus at his time and Muhammad at his time. Muslims say Jesus was a muslim too, but they reject the teachings of Paul and others because that isnt the Injil, that isnt authorised by Isa. But their double standard can be seen when they invite the christians to their faith and then hand them the Qur'an along with gospels of Bukhari/Muslim etc.

I am only a student, may Allah forgive my errors and guide me.

PEACE
------------------ Student of Allah
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TruthBehindIt

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Re: Obey Da Messenger
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2011, 05:12:19 AM »
Salam and Peace!

Quote from: High Imam Ismaili Sniper on June 28, 2011, 06:36:45 PM
Peace!  :peace:

Why does it say "Allah WA Rasool"? Thiz is the thing Quranites can't answer  ;D

Okay!-----Can you answer the following???


What did the Messenger bring?-----"The Message"---Or---"Sunnatur Rasool"???


=================================================================



An Open Challenge!


Please, can you show me the word or terminology "Sunnatur Rasool" in Allah's Quran???



Take it as a challenge.---A brotherly challenge.

And if you can not show this terminology "Sunnatur Rasool" in Allah's Quran,-----then fear Allah,-----and don't invite people to what is not Approved and Authorized by Allah as Deen.

Show us Verse/Verses containing the word "Sunnatur Rasool".


================================================================================


Nowhere in Al-Quran, Allah commands us to follow the "Prophet's Sunnah" or "Sunnatur Rasool".
The words or terminology "Sunnatur Rasool" as such, can not be found in Al-Quran..

Allah's Commands us to follow His Exalted Quran. That's it.

-----"Follow (O mankind) that which has been sent down to you from your Lord, and do not follow besides Him any Awliyah (protecting friends). Little it is you remember."   (7:3)

And Allah Commands:

-----"Then if there comes to you A Guidance from Me, then whoever follows My Guidance, he will not astray, nor fall into misery. And whoever turns away from My Remembrance (Al-Quran), indeed then for him is a life of hardship, and We shall gather him on the The Judgement Day blind." (Tahaa-123,124)

So the Prophet himself followed nothing but The Guidance (Al-Quran) from Allah.

-----"Say (O Messenger): “If I go astray, I shall stray only against myself, and if I am guided, so it is because of what my Lord has revealed to me. Indeed, He is Hearer, Near."  (Saba-50)

Allah has Commanded us to Obey the Messenger.
Obey the Messenger in what???

Obey the Messenger in what he did.
He followed Al-Quran.
You also follow Al-Quran.-----This is "Obeying the Messenger".


The Messenger never established any "Sunnatur Rasool" at all.

So, we don't have to follow "Sunnatur Rasool".

We have to follow Allah's Quran.


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