Author Topic: A meditation technique.  (Read 2463 times)

IAMOP

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Re: A meditation technique.
« Reply #50 on: November 27, 2011, 10:37:35 AM »
The verse says that Allah is the light of the Heavens and the earth, as you highlighted. I do not see where you are going. Perhaps you are going to enlighten me (on how this verse relates to Pantheism), O Wise IAMOP!

It is a direct statement that ALLAH is the light of the heavens and the earth.

THEN it goes on to say "a parable/likeness/metaphor". So we know that ALLAH is literally the light.

There is no room to argue here, surely the truth is clear.
As you fall asleep and wake up to a new day
So shall you enter your grave and arise to the last


"Now no person knows what delights of the eye are kept hidden for them - as a reward for their deeds" (32:17)

Iznagen

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Re: A meditation technique.
« Reply #51 on: November 27, 2011, 10:39:37 AM »
It is a direct statement that ALLAH is the light of the heavens and the earth.

THEN it goes on to say "a parable/likeness/metaphor". So we know that ALLAH is literally the light.

There is no room to argue here, surely the truth is clear.

I might be slow, after all, I am not a messenger like you and I do not communicate with higher forces (Ashtar commands, remember? ;)) but please, do share your wisdom and explain how Allah being the light of the Heavens and the Earth relates to Pantheism ?
(6:116) And if you obey the majority of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow only conjecture, and that is because they only guess.

IAMOP

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Re: A meditation technique.
« Reply #52 on: November 27, 2011, 10:58:16 AM »
There are no isms. ALLH is the light! So we know that ALLH is tangible. As opposed to an invisible unseen force that pulls the strings, ALLH is in front of our faces.

How does it relate to Pantheism? Rather it's the reverse. Pantheism comes from the knowledge that ALLH is the light of the heavens and earth as far as I am aware.
As you fall asleep and wake up to a new day
So shall you enter your grave and arise to the last


"Now no person knows what delights of the eye are kept hidden for them - as a reward for their deeds" (32:17)

Prince

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Re: A meditation technique.
« Reply #53 on: November 27, 2011, 11:18:14 AM »
It is a direct statement that ALLAH is the light of the heavens and the earth.

THEN it goes on to say "a parable/likeness/metaphor". So we know that ALLAH is literally the light.

There is no room to argue here, surely the truth is clear.

If you don't cross reference verses about Allah you will reach a faulty conclusion like you have. This is because your view contradicts other verses such as:

1) There is nothing like unto Him - 42:11
2) There is nothing that can be compared with Him - 112:4

The verse in question alludes to a metaphor of Allah since He is incomprehensible to imagine hence the metaphors of Him in the Quran. Soon as we start defining what Allah is He is not that - we can only experience Him through His attributes described in the Quran.

If you wish to still hold onto the view of Him LITERALLY being light how do you resolve the contradiction of the two above verses I've quoted?

PEACE
"It is criminal to teach man not to defend himself when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks." - [Malcolm X]

Prince

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Re: A meditation technique.
« Reply #54 on: November 27, 2011, 11:24:39 AM »
Paradox Uncreated, I remember you from Facebook, where you tried to sell us the lie that Qu'ran supports pantheism and that everything is Allah and Allah is everything. Now, this is very similar to Sufism, isn't it? Modern Satanists (belief developed by LaVeyen) believe that they are their own Gods, which relates to your speech that everything is Allah and Allah is everything.

Perhaps you changed your view over time, or you are a skillful devil always seeking better ways to deceive or, simply, we all just read you wrong. 

One of the three.

In my opinion the Quran supports something called Panentheism...slightly different to Pantheism which supports God is the whole where Panentheism is the whole is in God but God is greater and exists beyond the whole - a paradox i know  ;) This in my opinion is what I believe the Quran supports more of since God is everywhere yet separate and beyond/greater than everywhere.  :-\

PEACE
"It is criminal to teach man not to defend himself when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks." - [Malcolm X]

IAMOP

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Re: A meditation technique.
« Reply #55 on: November 27, 2011, 11:25:09 AM »
Peace,

Do you see any contradiction?

ALLH is telling us: ALLH is the light of the heavens and the earth

ALLH is telling us: There is no likeness unto him

Now let us refer to the beginning of chapter 24:

سُورَةٌ أَنْزَلْنَاهَا وَفَرَضْنَاهَا وَأَنْزَلْنَا فِيهَا آيَاتٍ بَيِّنَاتٍ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَذَكَّرُونَ {1}
[Shakir 24:1] (This is) a chapter which We have revealed and made obligatory and in which We have revealed clear communications that you may be mindful.

Then back to verse 35:

اللَّهُ نُورُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ ۚ مَثَلُ نُورِهِ كَمِشْكَاةٍ فِيهَا مِصْبَاحٌ ۖ الْمِصْبَاحُ فِي زُجَاجَةٍ ۖ الزُّجَاجَةُ كَأَنَّهَا كَوْكَبٌ دُرِّيٌّ يُوقَدُ مِنْ شَجَرَةٍ مُبَارَكَةٍ زَيْتُونَةٍ لَا شَرْقِيَّةٍ وَلَا غَرْبِيَّةٍ يَكَادُ زَيْتُهَا يُضِيءُ وَلَوْ لَمْ تَمْسَسْهُ نَارٌ ۚ نُورٌ عَلَىٰ نُورٍ ۗ يَهْدِي اللَّهُ لِنُورِهِ مَنْ يَشَاءُ ۚ وَيَضْرِبُ اللَّهُ الْأَمْثَالَ لِلنَّاسِ ۗ وَاللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ {35}
[Shakir 24:35] Allah is the light of the heavens and the earth; a likeness of His light is as a niche in which is a lamp, the lamp is in a glass, (and) the glass is as it were a brightly shining star, lit from a blessed olive-tree, neither eastern nor western, the oil whereof almost gives light though fire touch it not-- light upon light-- Allah guides to His light whom He pleases, and Allah sets forth parables for men, and Allah is Cognizant of all things.

This is a direct statement followed by a metaphor.

It is not me that is defining ALLH, keep in mind it is ALLH defining ALLH and who else can!

Physical light (photons) is not the same thing as nur. Nur = energy. Energy possesses all the attributes of ALLH; ALLH IS energy.

Peace
As you fall asleep and wake up to a new day
So shall you enter your grave and arise to the last


"Now no person knows what delights of the eye are kept hidden for them - as a reward for their deeds" (32:17)

Prince

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Re: A meditation technique.
« Reply #56 on: November 27, 2011, 11:31:20 AM »
And how about nothing can be compared with Him 112:4 which you have done stating He is the light literally. Is it a coincidence Allah tells us in the same verse that He sets parables for us. What would be the point of a parable if its something literal as you say.

A parable is given to help us understand something is beyond the literal meaning. Allah is beyond light literally as nothing is like Him or can be compared to Him as per the verses I've quoted. You are still yet to reconcile those verses with what you are proposing.

PEACE
"It is criminal to teach man not to defend himself when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks." - [Malcolm X]

Paradox Uncreated

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Re: A meditation technique.
« Reply #57 on: November 27, 2011, 11:50:12 AM »
God is one consciousness. This consciousness consists of us all. This is the only thing I have talked about. It is not pantheism, and not panentheism. God is the truth, transcendent, and creator of the world. And maybe most importantly God is good. And this is the true nature of consciousness.
Paradox Void is the infinitely superior.

Paradox Void is an attribute of God, or any other entity it should point to, which is the same entity.
Designer of all dimensions. Former of forms, shaper of shapes. According to truth.
Peace.

IAMOP

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Re: A meditation technique.
« Reply #58 on: November 27, 2011, 11:57:10 AM »
And how about nothing can be compared with Him 112:4 which you have done stating He is the light literally. Is it a coincidence Allah tells us in the same verse that He sets parables for us. What would be the point of a parable if its something literal as you say.

A parable is given to help us understand something is beyond the literal meaning. Allah is beyond light literally as nothing is like Him or can be compared to Him as per the verses I've quoted. You are still yet to reconcile those verses with what you are proposing.

PEACE

112:4 does not say there is no example, the word used is different. 24:35 states there is an example of ALLH as described. 42:11 says there is no example of ALLH. So reconcile that with 24:35 where ALLH gives you a direct example of what ALLH is. Remember the structure of 24:35 - literal THEN metaphorical. This is crucial to understanding that there is no contradiction here. What I understand is that 112:4 states there is no equivalent to ALLH and 42:11 states there is nothing similar to ALLH. But I can just as well say "there is nothing similar to a pen" but that isn't true! Whereas the statement "There is nothing to match/equivalent to energy/light/awareness" is ALWAYS true!

Look at the specific wordings used in the verses and you will see there is no contradiction whatsoever. The premise you are arguing from is based on a misconception: assume ALLH is an untouchable ungraspable force => interpret quran to find agreement with this premise => claim the idea that ALLH is graspable is invalid using the very interpretation based on that contradictory premise

This method does not work. Al-Quran is ALWAYS 100% clear in its wording.

Peace
As you fall asleep and wake up to a new day
So shall you enter your grave and arise to the last


"Now no person knows what delights of the eye are kept hidden for them - as a reward for their deeds" (32:17)

Edip Yuksel

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Re: A meditation technique.
« Reply #59 on: November 28, 2011, 11:56:35 PM »
Fear of death make many subconsciously cling to an external god. But nothing will happen at death, except yourself. You are the paradox that is God. Remove all external gods from your mind.

MEDITATE ON: I am a paradox, death, and there are no external gods.

There is just the one internal God, We, all consciousness and life. The one force, that created all, and arranges all.

You are full of yourself!  "Week is both the seeker and the sought!" (22:73) You claim to be both!

Peace.
Edip Yuksel, J.D.
www.yuksel.org
www.19.org
Each of us must use our own mind in pursuit of knowledge. (17:36; 10:100; 39:17-18; 41:53; 42:21; 6:114-116; 10:36; 12:111; 20:114; 21:7; 35:28; 38:29).